2010-2011 Red Sox Off-Season Thread

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Re: 2010-2011 Red Sox Off-Season Thread

Postby MisterTambourineMan » 09 Dec 2010, 14:40

TVF wannabe wrote:
Theny wrote:Nice, I got two breakdowns on my breakdown. \:D/

I still don't buy that FTT has seen Gonzalez play....10pm start times on the east coast for Padres/Rockies or whatever? Even family members of the guys on the teams aren't watching that. :D

Gonzales is a good player and youre forgetting FTT is a 40 year old guy he stays home and watches games and on the road what else is there besides for whatever sport is on TV.

I'll bet Prez knows him too (more because he's a self described baseball lover)



After however many times his name has been in this thread, you still spelled it with an S at the end.


Nobody has seen the Padres.
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Re: 2010-2011 Red Sox Off-Season Thread

Postby Frank the Tank » 09 Dec 2010, 14:40

I'm also a guy who plans business trips around baseball schedules in order to visit baseball parks.
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Re: 2010-2011 Red Sox Off-Season Thread

Postby Theny » 09 Dec 2010, 14:41

Yeah I agree that Prez and probably Rickey know all about him.
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Re: 2010-2011 Red Sox Off-Season Thread

Postby TheWolf » 09 Dec 2010, 14:52

SouthernYokel wrote:mmm...i don't really have a dog in this fight but i'm going to go ahead and disagree with you on that very last point you made. While it's true the sox/yanks were not in the world series this year, they've pretty much been the mainstays out of the AL for the last 15. Outliers be damned, they're the favorites every year. So they are "buying" championships (by paying the best players...i'm not saying they're "BUYING THEM" buying them), whether the sox are getting a championship buying discount over the yankees is a decent response i guess. They seem to get more bang for their buck. But they use more bucks than everyone but the yanks. So you both suck. sorry.


Some good points in there. Good to know not all Braves fans are tards.
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Re: 2010-2011 Red Sox Off-Season Thread

Postby mj3528 » 09 Dec 2010, 15:11

Frank the Tank wrote:I'm also a guy who plans business trips around baseball schedules in order to visit baseball parks.


I have done this as well. My favorite was putting off one in KC for a few weeks until the Indians were in town.
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Re: 2010-2011 Red Sox Off-Season Thread

Postby PhillyJim76 » 09 Dec 2010, 17:41

FTT and The Wolf just live in denial.

The Redsox didn't "need" a 3b/1b. They wanted to upgrade from Beltre. I bet the Royals would like to upgrade too, but they can't. The red sox can because they have unlimited funds and can outbid all but one other team in baseball. I really could care less, but you sox fans are just ashamed to admit you are just like the Yankees. And idiot sox fans eat up the corny shit guys say, like Crawford saying he wants to play in Boston. Good grief.
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Re: 2010-2011 Red Sox Off-Season Thread

Postby ONTB » 09 Dec 2010, 18:27

Angels, Cubs, Mets and Dodgers can all out-bid the Red Sox for A GUY. Maybe A GUY or two. They aren't going to put the same kind of team together from a total financial standpoint. But if those clubs get in the bidding for A GUY, they can win it. And they're big budget enough that A GUY doesn't kill them.
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Re: 2010-2011 Red Sox Off-Season Thread

Postby Prez » 09 Dec 2010, 19:45

Theny wrote:Yeah I agree that Prez and probably Rickey know all about him.


As stated earlier, I am a pretty big baseball fan. I watch a lot of games during the season, probably in this order:

1.Red Sox
2.Yankees
3.Mets
4.High School
5.Little League
6.Misc other MLB teams on Fox, ESPN MLB Net etc.
7.Minor League

7,329.Padres

I'm not going to pretend I've seen Gonzalez play more than a few times (maybe?) I don't think I could watch him even if I wanted to, unless I signed up for MLB TV and streamed all the Padres games at 10 PM. Yeah, that's going to happen.

I generally agree with Wolf that you don't necessarily need to have seen a player to guess how he'll fit in with a team or ballpark... stats and "experts" come in handy in that regard. Other than that, I'd prefer not to get involved in this pillow fight about payroll. I barely have time to read the posts here and wonder how some of you can break down other peoples posts and argue the same points over and over and over.

Does MLB need a salary cap? Of course it does... but unfortunately the players have too much power for that to happen any time soon.
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Re: 2010-2011 Red Sox Off-Season Thread

Postby kaskomm09 » 09 Dec 2010, 21:08

Theny wrote:
FTT wrote:Gonazalez is great and would fit right in at Fenway


You have a wife and two kids, and a very demanding job apparently....there is NO FUCKING WAY you know anything about Adrian Gonzalez, and how he would fit in at Fenway or how he would deal with the pressure cooker of Beantown. He's like the Chris Bosh of MLB, everyone says he's good but nobody's seen him actually play.


I'll jump in late on this but he is a great fit at Fenway.

I've owned him for the past 2.5 years in my main keeper league (/unnecessary validation), so I've definitely seen my fair share of his ABs, dug into his numbers and complained about what Petco does/did to his back-of-the-card baseball stats. That being said, what says you have to watch him day in and out to understand and/or make that sort of a statement. It's not one that people who do in fact live and work with the game haven't made. Jed Hoyer said as much, as have numerous baseball writers and experts.

Adrian is a great fit at the park for a few reasons. First, neutralizing his stats to go from Petco (extreme pitchers park) to Fenway (upper echelon hitters park) should bump his OPS close to 100 points itself. Here's the work Fangraphs did on that:

Image

Additionally, he's a lefty hitter with spray power to all fields, which should play extremely well for balls off/over the Monster in LF in Fenway. Here's his home run scatter plot from 2010, landing spots neutralized for weather conditions (wind, temperature, air pressure):

Image

I personally think he's going to be an absolute beast next year, provided his shoulder heals properly (which I think it will and don't worry too much about). If I had to lay bets, I'd throw him as the favorite for AL MVP. That's obviously optimistic, but I genuinely believe in that.
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Re: 2010-2011 Red Sox Off-Season Thread

Postby Frank the Tank » 09 Dec 2010, 21:39

PhillyJim76 wrote:FTT and The Wolf just live in denial.

The Redsox didn't "need" a 3b/1b. They wanted to upgrade from Beltre. I bet the Royals would like to upgrade too, but they can't. The red sox can because they have unlimited funds and can outbid all but one other team in baseball. I really could care less, but you sox fans are just ashamed to admit you are just like the Yankees. And idiot sox fans eat up the corny shit guys say, like Crawford saying he wants to play in Boston. Good grief.


ONTB wrote:Angels, Cubs, Mets and Dodgers can all out-bid the Red Sox for A GUY. Maybe A GUY or two. They aren't going to put the same kind of team together from a total financial standpoint. But if those clubs get in the bidding for A GUY, they can win it. And they're big budget enough that A GUY doesn't kill them.


This is a good example of an irrational argument and a rational one back to back. Worth studying.

I could point out how PJ76 should probably let go of the argument even Theny thought was poor (Beltre's a free agent and not a member of the Red Sox, dumbass), but in order to preserve my own sanity and increase reading pleasure for the rest of the board, I hereby vow to ignore every single PJ76 post in "Just Another Team" for the rest of my tenure on the board (starting after I hit "submit" on this post). Just not worth my time. While I may disagree with many of the rest of you, I respect that you can often make good arguments and spark spirited debate. I need to focus my energy on those conversations and not on verbal diarrhea.
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Re: 2010-2011 Red Sox Off-Season Thread

Postby ONTB » 09 Dec 2010, 23:09

Great post kasko.

I've probably seen 100 to 125 of his at bats over the past two seasons and he has the kind of plate discipline and patience that will fit in nicely with the Red Sox. He'll obviously add power.

As for the evil Red Sox nation... look, the Sox have a bunch of money coming off the books this season. They have a ton of money coming off the books next season. They added Gonzalez and Crawford. They lose Mike Lowell, Victor Martinez, Adrian Beltre and Julio Lugo this season. And potentially J.D. Drew, David Ortiz, Jonathan Papelbon, Mike Cameron, Marco Scutaro, Tim Wakefield and Tek next season. And they flip that smartly into two guys in the midst of their primes. That's not spending money to fix mistakes or taking on additional financial obligation to hide poor decisions. Fuck me, that looks like a good, measured plan. So, during last season, Ryan Howard gets 125 million over 5 years and Halladay gets essentially 100 million over 5 years for 33 year old pitcher-- and the Phillies aren't bullies? The Phillies aren't the bad guys? Just the little club that could? Trying to keep up.

Let's get real. It's the Yankees and 7 or 8 other teams that can put together huge payrolls when they feel like it. In recent years, the Cubs and Mets have had higher payrolls than the Red Sox. The Philles, Tigers and Angels have been in the ball park. Once the Dodgers get their ownership stuff straight, they can ante up. And you never know when some team might find an owner willing to spend. It's a fallacy to say the Sox are closer to the Yankees than they are the other big market teams.
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Re: 2010-2011 Red Sox Off-Season Thread

Postby TheWolf » 10 Dec 2010, 04:27

ONTB wrote:Great post kasko.

I've probably seen 100 to 125 of his at bats over the past two seasons and he has the kind of plate discipline and patience that will fit in nicely with the Red Sox. He'll obviously add power.

As for the evil Red Sox nation... look, the Sox have a bunch of money coming off the books this season. They have a ton of money coming off the books next season. They added Gonzalez and Crawford. They lose Mike Lowell, Victor Martinez, Adrian Beltre and Julio Lugo this season. And potentially J.D. Drew, David Ortiz, Jonathan Papelbon, Mike Cameron, Marco Scutaro, Tim Wakefield and Tek next season. And they flip that smartly into two guys in the midst of their primes. That's not spending money to fix mistakes or taking on additional financial obligation to hide poor decisions. Fuck me, that looks like a good, measured plan. So, during last season, Ryan Howard gets 125 million over 5 years and Halladay gets essentially 100 million over 5 years for 33 year old pitcher-- and the Phillies aren't bullies? The Phillies aren't the bad guys? Just the little club that could? Trying to keep up.

Let's get real. It's the Yankees and 7 or 8 other teams that can put together huge payrolls when they feel like it. In recent years, the Cubs and Mets have had higher payrolls than the Red Sox. The Philles, Tigers and Angels have been in the ball park. Once the Dodgers get their ownership stuff straight, they can ante up. And you never know when some team might find an owner willing to spend. It's a fallacy to say the Sox are closer to the Yankees than they are the other big market teams.


I hereby nominate ONTB to settle every petty dispute about the evils of baseball salaries.

Great post.
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Re: 2010-2011 Red Sox Off-Season Thread

Postby BostonSucksMyBalls » 10 Dec 2010, 07:22

Great post Wolf.

Halladay signed a 3 year/60 mil deal with a vesting 4th year for 20...(whatever that means). So, not $100....gonna have to bust you on that one. The Phillies jewed him into that 3 year deal...if he had hit the open market, you know he would have gotten 7/$150 or something. Phillies are a have-not. (not really).

Great post BSMB.
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Re: 2010-2011 Red Sox Off-Season Thread

Postby PhillyJim76 » 10 Dec 2010, 08:08

Also, the Phillies traded their best minor league pitcher and their 2nd best hitting prospect in the deal. But why let the facts get in the way of an argument. They don't just annex other teams players like the NaziSox do.

And FTT, don't read my brilliance, I don't care, if you don't see the point I am making, it is only because you don't want to acknowledge the truth. The Sox whined for a salary cap when the Yanks got A-Rod, and then whined again when the Yanks got CC. But when the Sox drop 40 plus million on two guys, it's cool.

And Wolf, kill the Phillies for resigning Howard, yet the beloved Celts got a whole friggin NBA rule changed so they could resign Larry Bird.
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Re: 2010-2011 Red Sox Off-Season Thread

Postby Briandong79 » 10 Dec 2010, 08:37

PhillyJim76 wrote:Also, the Phillies traded their best minor league pitcher and their 2nd best hitting prospect in the deal. But why let the facts get in the way of an argument. They don't just annex other teams players like the NaziSox do.


Weren't Casey Kelly and Anthony Rizzo two of the Sox best prospects? And they haven't yet signed him to a long term extension, so good, by this logic, we've decided that the Adrian Gonzalez trade was completely fair apparently. And since Crawford was just a free agent signing, that a number of teams could have easily afforded, then I'd say this conversation has run its course.
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