Sons of Fennis Dembo: Irrelevent Hoop Discussion

Re: The Generic Podcast Thread

Postby Booharv » 11 Jun 2010, 17:57

Using win shares in any basketball argument, ignores the tidal wave of question marks as to its effectiveness in measuring a basketball player's abilities. And PER is only useful when comparing players' offensive games. Otherwise you end up with retarded statements like "Scottie Pippen is equal to Joe Johnson" or a system where Pippen isn't a top 200 player and a bunch of scrubs who couldn't wash his jock are. But kids love using those two flawed systems. It's interesting to note how Daryl Morey basically said PER is retarded in his podcast with Simba. I myself use it when making a point, but only as an ancillary tool. Not an argument winner except in rare, extreme cases.
faggy opinions + certainty = douchebag status
User avatar
Booharv
Hope College Alum
 
Posts: 245
Joined: 17 Apr 2010, 00:17
Location: at the scrip club, bein rebellion.

Re: The Generic Podcast Thread

Postby dlpin » 11 Jun 2010, 18:09

Booharv wrote:Using win shares in any basketball argument, ignores the tidal wave of question marks as to its effectiveness in measuring a basketball player's abilities. And PER is only useful when comparing players' offensive games. Otherwise you end up with retarded statements like "Scottie Pippen is equal to Joe Johnson" or a system where Pippen isn't a top 200 player and a bunch of scrubs who couldn't wash his jock are. But kids love using those two flawed systems. It's interesting to note how Daryl Morey basically said PER is retarded in his podcast with Simba. I myself use it when making a point, but only as an ancillary tool. Not an argument winner except in rare, extreme cases.


And what, pray tell, are the tidal wave of question marks about it's effectiveness that do not apply to any other sort of quantifiable data? And do these questions make the sort of "kids these days" arguments any less of an internet cliche?
User avatar
dlpin
Rocky Balboa
 
Posts: 1158
Joined: 18 Feb 2010, 20:31

Re: The Generic Podcast Thread

Postby someguysomewhere » 11 Jun 2010, 18:10

dlpin wrote:
Booharv wrote:Using win shares in any basketball argument, ignores the tidal wave of question marks as to its effectiveness in measuring a basketball player's abilities. And PER is only useful when comparing players' offensive games. Otherwise you end up with retarded statements like "Scottie Pippen is equal to Joe Johnson" or a system where Pippen isn't a top 200 player and a bunch of scrubs who couldn't wash his jock are. But kids love using those two flawed systems. It's interesting to note how Daryl Morey basically said PER is retarded in his podcast with Simba. I myself use it when making a point, but only as an ancillary tool. Not an argument winner except in rare, extreme cases.


And what, pray tell, are the tidal wave of question marks about it's effectiveness that do not apply to any other sort of quantifiable data? And do these questions make the sort of "kids these days" arguments any less of an internet cliche?


Jesus Christ, what kind of bat signal do you n00bs have for each other to restart a week or two old argument?
the very best of _:

Mar 15
if im cooking frozen pizza in the oven, how long should i preheat it. box says preheat to 375F but for how long?

Apr 25
the opportunity cost of knowing how to preheat an oven is pretty puny compared to anything else
User avatar
someguysomewhere
TRU Patriot
 
Posts: 10404
Joined: 19 May 2006, 12:04
Location: The foul line, looking terrified.

Re: The Generic Podcast Thread

Postby BostonSucksMyBalls » 11 Jun 2010, 18:31

The Long Dick of the Law wrote:Beginning of the one with Carolla is about how "boring" baseball is and in true Simba fashion, he doesn't challenge his guest at all and just repeats, "Oh yeah, baseball's boring to go to." Gee, why did you have to have your precious Sawx win so you can die in peace fucktard? Just go fucking die and leave the rest of us in peace.


I listened to this pod today. Carolla talking about how he could have 80% as much fun going to Dodger stadium with no game going on, in comparison to if a game was happening was hilarious. So true, too. His disdain for baseball and soccer won him points right here.
PS: I will never like July 27th. It will always be the day Reggie died. I just hate this day. True Celtic fans know what I mean.

"i'm relatively confident her asshole" - Farva
User avatar
BostonSucksMyBalls
Slave to Uber
 
Posts: 31097
Joined: 26 Aug 2005, 09:59

Re: The Generic Podcast Thread

Postby Booharv » 11 Jun 2010, 19:20

dlpin wrote:And what, pray tell, are the tidal wave of question marks about it's effectiveness that do not apply to any other sort of quantifiable data? And do these questions make the sort of "kids these days" arguments any less of an internet cliche?


Generalizing is not the same as having a cliche of a personality. The "guy who tries to turn everything into an IQ test" and the "internet comedy judge" are the two biggest cliche personalities I see on the internet message boards/comments sections/etc imo. You made a strong case for the former before it was pointed out to you. A lot of the young fans of the game point to advanced stats before they understand them, how many people touting PER really understand what this formula means? I mean look at the fucking formula used to come up with PER:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_Eff ... alculation I bet 99% of PER proponents can't do the math in that equation. I nearly had a degree in mechanical engineering in 2004 before I dropped out to help out my family and at the time I could have done that no problem. I could still probably do it with a little time and effort. The point is most people pimping such formulas know very little about them or their flaws. And what they do learn of the flaws they learn from people who understand them and they have to take those people's word for it. Plus, it's interesting to note how Daryl Morey basically said PER is retarded in his podcast with Simba. And that any system that seeks to compare players objectively with a number rating is doomed to failure.

The flaws in Win Shares (an admittedly simpler formula) have been pointed out ad nauseam even by its proponents at apbr.org: http://www.apbr.org/forum/ Search around there.

There is a more simple demerit: Horace Grant is ahead of Kobe and Clyde Drexler in playoff win shares according to this: http://www.apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php ... win+shares and that's ran per minute (per 484 minutes rather). Any system where Horace Grant outscores those two should be scrapped and started over immediately. Or at least taken with a grain of salt and not used as some super formula to lord over your pals when making an argument.
faggy opinions + certainty = douchebag status
User avatar
Booharv
Hope College Alum
 
Posts: 245
Joined: 17 Apr 2010, 00:17
Location: at the scrip club, bein rebellion.

Re: The Generic Podcast Thread

Postby Dthefritz » 11 Jun 2010, 19:35

Can we make a side thread for this kind of nonsense? It's clear these guys aren't going to be deterred and it's getting harder for me not to take the bait when people throw out nonsense like this, even in the wrong thread.
User avatar
Dthefritz
tl;dr
 
Posts: 7497
Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 01:35
Location: In the green, never in between

Re: The Generic Podcast Thread

Postby dlpin » 11 Jun 2010, 19:39

Dthefritz wrote:Can we make a side thread for this kind of nonsense? It's clear these guys aren't going to be deterred and it's getting harder for me not to take the bait when people throw out nonsense like this, even in the wrong thread.


Don't worry, I'm leaving this one alone. "I almost had a degree in mechanical engineering" and "search the internet, brah" are arguments that are too stupid even for me to tackle. Though Im sure two weeks from now I'll get a beat down about the kids these days.
User avatar
dlpin
Rocky Balboa
 
Posts: 1158
Joined: 18 Feb 2010, 20:31

Re: The Generic Podcast Thread

Postby mistamista » 11 Jun 2010, 19:40

Booharv wrote:
dlpin wrote:And what, pray tell, are the tidal wave of question marks about it's effectiveness that do not apply to any other sort of quantifiable data? And do these questions make the sort of "kids these days" arguments any less of an internet cliche?


Generalizing is not the same as having a cliche of a personality. The "guy who tries to turn everything into an IQ test" and the "internet comedy judge" are the two biggest cliche personalities I see on the internet message boards/comments sections/etc imo. You made a strong case for the former before it was pointed out to you. A lot of the young fans of the game point to advanced stats before they understand them, how many people touting PER really understand what this formula means? I mean look at the fucking formula used to come up with PER:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_Eff ... alculation I bet 99% of PER proponents can't do the math in that equation. I nearly had a degree in mechanical engineering in 2004 before I dropped out to help out my family and at the time I could have done that no problem. I could still probably do it with a little time and effort. The point is most people pimping such formulas know very little about them or their flaws. And what they do learn of the flaws they learn from people who understand them and they have to take those people's word for it. Plus, it's interesting to note how Daryl Morey basically said PER is retarded in his podcast with Simba. And that any system that seeks to compare players objectively with a number rating is doomed to failure.

The flaws in Win Shares (an admittedly simpler formula) have been pointed out ad nauseam even by its proponents at apbr.org: http://www.apbr.org/forum/ Search around there.

There is a more simple demerit: Horace Grant is ahead of Kobe and Clyde Drexler in playoff win shares according to this: http://www.apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php ... win+shares and that's ran per minute (per 484 minutes rather). Any system where Horace Grant outscores those two should be scrapped and started over immediately. Or at least taken with a grain of salt and not used as some super formula to lord over your pals when making an argument.


Where's the mute button?
mistamista
Chuggo
 
Posts: 32
Joined: 16 Oct 2007, 00:29

Re: The Generic Podcast Thread

Postby Booharv » 11 Jun 2010, 20:56

mistamista wrote:
Where's the mute button?

I assume you can put me on ignore. Look into it. For my sake and yours.
faggy opinions + certainty = douchebag status
User avatar
Booharv
Hope College Alum
 
Posts: 245
Joined: 17 Apr 2010, 00:17
Location: at the scrip club, bein rebellion.

Re: The Generic Podcast Thread

Postby Booharv » 11 Jun 2010, 21:10

dlpin wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:Can we make a side thread for this kind of nonsense? It's clear these guys aren't going to be deterred and it's getting harder for me not to take the bait when people throw out nonsense like this, even in the wrong thread.


Don't worry, I'm leaving this one alone. "I almost had a degree in mechanical engineering" and "search the internet, brah" are arguments that are too stupid even for me to tackle. Though Im sure two weeks from now I'll get a beat down about the kids these days.

Ignore everything else and then misinterpret a random bio note I threw in (to prove no point) and the fact that my time can't be wasted looking through apbr for the threads on win shares? And act like you've won an argument. Nice strategy. What that tells me is you understand nothing of how PER is calculated or what it weights heavily, how it's formulated, etc. but you use it everywhere.

dlpin wrote:Scottie Pippen is basically the same as Joe Johnson. If they're the leader of a team, they're a second round knockout at their peak. No difference.
faggy opinions + certainty = douchebag status
User avatar
Booharv
Hope College Alum
 
Posts: 245
Joined: 17 Apr 2010, 00:17
Location: at the scrip club, bein rebellion.

Re: The Generic Podcast Thread

Postby BFP » 11 Jun 2010, 21:40

mistamista wrote:
Booharv wrote:
dlpin wrote:And what, pray tell, are the tidal wave of question marks about it's effectiveness that do not apply to any other sort of quantifiable data? And do these questions make the sort of "kids these days" arguments any less of an internet cliche?


Generalizing is not the same as having a cliche of a personality. The "guy who tries to turn everything into an IQ test" and the "internet comedy judge" are the two biggest cliche personalities I see on the internet message boards/comments sections/etc imo. You made a strong case for the former before it was pointed out to you. A lot of the young fans of the game point to advanced stats before they understand them, how many people touting PER really understand what this formula means? I mean look at the fucking formula used to come up with PER:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_Eff ... alculation I bet 99% of PER proponents can't do the math in that equation. I nearly had a degree in mechanical engineering in 2004 before I dropped out to help out my family and at the time I could have done that no problem. I could still probably do it with a little time and effort. The point is most people pimping such formulas know very little about them or their flaws. And what they do learn of the flaws they learn from people who understand them and they have to take those people's word for it. Plus, it's interesting to note how Daryl Morey basically said PER is retarded in his podcast with Simba. And that any system that seeks to compare players objectively with a number rating is doomed to failure.

The flaws in Win Shares (an admittedly simpler formula) have been pointed out ad nauseam even by its proponents at apbr.org: http://www.apbr.org/forum/ Search around there.

There is a more simple demerit: Horace Grant is ahead of Kobe and Clyde Drexler in playoff win shares according to this: http://www.apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php ... win+shares and that's ran per minute (per 484 minutes rather). Any system where Horace Grant outscores those two should be scrapped and started over immediately. Or at least taken with a grain of salt and not used as some super formula to lord over your pals when making an argument.


Where's the mute button?



Image
User avatar
BFP
Bruce Dickinson
 
Posts: 818
Joined: 24 Sep 2008, 12:19

Re: The Generic Podcast Thread

Postby Booharv » 11 Jun 2010, 21:49

Pour it on, hopefully with anything funnier than something from that awful Around the Table show. But still let me have it....

Haha, win shares. Haha, PER. And haha, win shares and PER in the wrong hands.
faggy opinions + certainty = douchebag status
User avatar
Booharv
Hope College Alum
 
Posts: 245
Joined: 17 Apr 2010, 00:17
Location: at the scrip club, bein rebellion.

Re: The Generic Podcast Thread

Postby someguysomewhere » 11 Jun 2010, 22:20

Booharv wrote:Pour it on, hopefully with anything funnier than something from that awful Around the Table show. But still let me have it....

Haha, win shares. Haha, PER. And haha, win shares and PER in the wrong hands.


Wow, this n00b's getting sassy. I like it. Keep up the good work.
the very best of _:

Mar 15
if im cooking frozen pizza in the oven, how long should i preheat it. box says preheat to 375F but for how long?

Apr 25
the opportunity cost of knowing how to preheat an oven is pretty puny compared to anything else
User avatar
someguysomewhere
TRU Patriot
 
Posts: 10404
Joined: 19 May 2006, 12:04
Location: The foul line, looking terrified.

Re: The Generic Podcast Thread

Postby Booharv » 11 Jun 2010, 22:48

I suggest starting a string of FAIL pics, or some pics of a bright faced boy with a basketball for dummies book, or a tween chick in a pink Dirk jersey book ending my posts.

Image

Image
(^omfgz this is you isn't it? Isn't it?!?!)

Let's get this rolling. :tu
faggy opinions + certainty = douchebag status
User avatar
Booharv
Hope College Alum
 
Posts: 245
Joined: 17 Apr 2010, 00:17
Location: at the scrip club, bein rebellion.

Re: The Generic Podcast Thread

Postby MisterTambourineMan » 12 Jun 2010, 01:27

that was awful to read....gonna make shit alright for a bit
MisterTambourineMan
Now
 
Posts: 13068
Joined: 03 Sep 2006, 14:25
Location: i already told you, won't tell you again

Next

Return to NBA

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest