ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Gregs Kite » 31 Jan 2018, 08:56

I said he was talented enough like Bonds to transcend the steroids stigma. I never said he and Bonds were equals. I hate Bonds with a passion but I can admit he was insanely better than Manny.
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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Dthefritz » 31 Jan 2018, 09:01

Gregs Kite wrote:I said he was talented enough like Bonds to transcend the steroids stigma. I never said he and Bonds were equals. I hate Bonds with a passion but I can admit he was insanely better than Manny.

Well in that case I can't really complain. I think you're selling Thome short, but you're not wildly overpraising Manny, so criticism withdrawn.
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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby TheWolf » 31 Jan 2018, 10:18

To clarify my stance... I don't remember what I actually said and don't feel go back to find my original post, but what I think I said (and definitely what I meant) was that Manny as a HITTER (not a ballplayer) was closer to Bonds than he was to Thome. I don't really know or care if there's any stats to prove or disprove my point, but having watched all three of them play, Manny had the ability to be Bonds-like in a "this dude is just on fire and there's nothing I can do to get him out" way, and I don't think Thome was ever that kind of guy.

Bonds is essentially in a class by himself, and I don't think Manny or anyone else is actually close to him when it comes right down to it. The gap between him and the field is pretty huge. But if I was just ranking all the guys I've ever seen hit a baseball, I would put Manny's name closer to Bonds than to Thome on that list. If that makes any sense at all.
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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Colonel Angus » 01 Feb 2018, 15:53

From today's Jamboroo (https://deadspin.com/how-to-be-cold-1822626038):

But it’s stupid to build a museum of baseball history and selectively excise the portions of that history you find morally objectionable. Not only were Clemens and Bonds significant figures in baseball, they’re also interesting. Make a fucking steroid exhibit! Put all the vials and syringes on display and play ominous music like you’re visiting the Tower of London’s torture chamber. I would go to that exhibit. The baseball Hall of Fame is the only museum on earth that fails to understand that tourists are more interested in the dark parts of history than the heroic parts.


I've heard this hot take a lot, from sports radio yellers and now Drew. People who make this argument in favor of Clemens' and Bonds' (and Pete Rose's) inductions apparently have not actually been to Cooperstown. The museum DOES contain all sorts of Clemens, Bonds, and Rose memorabilia. It tells the story of baseball, warts and all. I have not been in almost 20 years, but I am sure that by now there are exhibits about steroids there, just like there were exhibits on the Black Sox scandal, segregation, greenies, and other unseemly events in the sport's history.

The Hall of Fame itself is a room with all the plaques of the inducted players. If you think Clemens, Bonds, and even Joe Jackson and Rose belong in that room, more power to you. But the museum in Cooperstown does not pretend they don't exist. It tells the dark parts of the sport's history. Leaving those guys out of the room with the plaques is not "selectively excising portions of history."

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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Briandong79 » 01 Feb 2018, 15:54

Colonel Angus wrote:From today's Jamboroo (https://deadspin.com/how-to-be-cold-1822626038):

But it’s stupid to build a museum of baseball history and selectively excise the portions of that history you find morally objectionable. Not only were Clemens and Bonds significant figures in baseball, they’re also interesting. Make a fucking steroid exhibit! Put all the vials and syringes on display and play ominous music like you’re visiting the Tower of London’s torture chamber. I would go to that exhibit. The baseball Hall of Fame is the only museum on earth that fails to understand that tourists are more interested in the dark parts of history than the heroic parts.


I've heard this hot take a lot, from sports radio yellers and now Drew. People who make this argument in favor of Clemens' and Bonds' (and Pete Rose's) inductions apparently have not actually been to Cooperstown. The museum DOES contain all sorts of Clemens, Bonds, and Rose memorabilia. It tells the story of baseball, warts and all. I have not been in almost 20 years, but I am sure that by now there are exhibits about steroids there, just like there were exhibits on the Black Sox scandal, segregation, greenies, and other unseemly events in the sport's history.

The Hall of Fame itself is a room with all the plaques of the inducted players. If you think Clemens, Bonds, and even Joe Jackson and Rose belong in that room, more power to you. But the museum in Cooperstown does not pretend they don't exist. It tells the dark parts of the sport's history. Leaving those guys out of the room with the plaques is not "selectively excising portions of history."

/rant over


That's one of Olbermann's big points about the HOF, I believe. The museum very much covers baseball history.
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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby TVF wannabe » 01 Feb 2018, 16:13

Colonel Angus wrote:From today's Jamboroo (https://deadspin.com/how-to-be-cold-1822626038):

But it’s stupid to build a museum of baseball history and selectively excise the portions of that history you find morally objectionable. Not only were Clemens and Bonds significant figures in baseball, they’re also interesting. Make a fucking steroid exhibit! Put all the vials and syringes on display and play ominous music like you’re visiting the Tower of London’s torture chamber. I would go to that exhibit. The baseball Hall of Fame is the only museum on earth that fails to understand that tourists are more interested in the dark parts of history than the heroic parts.


I've heard this hot take a lot, from sports radio yellers and now Drew. People who make this argument in favor of Clemens' and Bonds' (and Pete Rose's) inductions apparently have not actually been to Cooperstown. The museum DOES contain all sorts of Clemens, Bonds, and Rose memorabilia. It tells the story of baseball, warts and all. I have not been in almost 20 years, but I am sure that by now there are exhibits about steroids there, just like there were exhibits on the Black Sox scandal, segregation, greenies, and other unseemly events in the sport's history.

The Hall of Fame itself is a room with all the plaques of the inducted players. If you think Clemens, Bonds, and even Joe Jackson and Rose belong in that room, more power to you. But the museum in Cooperstown does not pretend they don't exist. It tells the dark parts of the sport's history. Leaving those guys out of the room with the plaques is not "selectively excising portions of history."

/rant over

good point, mind you the plaque section is boring and lame. At least it was 20 something years ago
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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby The Long Dick of the Law » 02 Feb 2018, 06:33

thirded or fourthed or whatever to colonel's point because yeah people say that and they have alllll that shit and more there, but whatever, doesn't fit the persecution complex
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