ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby mj3528 » 26 Jan 2018, 14:13

Dr Jeckyll wrote:
Rodney Farva wrote:
mj3528 wrote:
Rodney Farva wrote:
mj3528 wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Gregs Kite wrote:
Briandong79 wrote:
TheWolf wrote:Shit on him all you want for whatever he did in the field, but as a pure hitter Manny is closer to Bonds than he is to Thome.

I looked up zero stats to support this claim, but I believe it with all my heart.


When they were both on the Sox, I thought Manny was better than Papi.


That's because he was.

Also, fackin fack Stevens Zion JEWS fack JETAH.

And both of them are borderline HoF'ers at best like Thome, while Bonds was a Greek God. I can't believe I'm even having to type these words.

Manny was better than thome, and he is most likely a first ballot hall of famer without his steroid issues


you could remove "most likely"

BUT

that's the whole problem, isn't it, you can't know how much of his performance was him, and how much was the juice. IF you care at all about that.


It was all manny and not the juice, because although manny took steroids he didn't work out to reap the benefits


that sounds like an awful lot of certainty for a very uncertain situation, i'm afraid i will gracefully decline your free brochure


I think mj was joshing us.


I really wasn't. Talk to the Indians coaching and front office staff from Manny's era. Guy did not lift weights hardly at all, and when he did not enough to make a difference in his strength.
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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Dr Jeckyll » 26 Jan 2018, 14:14

mj3528 wrote:
Dr Jeckyll wrote:
Rodney Farva wrote:
mj3528 wrote:
Rodney Farva wrote:
mj3528 wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Gregs Kite wrote:
Briandong79 wrote:
TheWolf wrote:Shit on him all you want for whatever he did in the field, but as a pure hitter Manny is closer to Bonds than he is to Thome.

I looked up zero stats to support this claim, but I believe it with all my heart.


When they were both on the Sox, I thought Manny was better than Papi.


That's because he was.

Also, fackin fack Stevens Zion JEWS fack JETAH.

And both of them are borderline HoF'ers at best like Thome, while Bonds was a Greek God. I can't believe I'm even having to type these words.

Manny was better than thome, and he is most likely a first ballot hall of famer without his steroid issues


you could remove "most likely"

BUT

that's the whole problem, isn't it, you can't know how much of his performance was him, and how much was the juice. IF you care at all about that.


It was all manny and not the juice, because although manny took steroids he didn't work out to reap the benefits


that sounds like an awful lot of certainty for a very uncertain situation, i'm afraid i will gracefully decline your free brochure


I think mj was joshing us.


I really wasn't. Talk to the Indians coaching and front office staff from Manny's era. Guy did not lift weights hardly at all, and when he did not enough to make a difference in his strength.


i agree with Rod then.
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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby JT99 » 26 Jan 2018, 14:38

Dr Jeckyll wrote:
mj3528 wrote:
Dr Jeckyll wrote:
Rodney Farva wrote:
mj3528 wrote:
Rodney Farva wrote:
mj3528 wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Gregs Kite wrote:
Briandong79 wrote:
TheWolf wrote:Shit on him all you want for whatever he did in the field, but as a pure hitter Manny is closer to Bonds than he is to Thome.

I looked up zero stats to support this claim, but I believe it with all my heart.


When they were both on the Sox, I thought Manny was better than Papi.


That's because he was.

Also, fackin fack Stevens Zion JEWS fack JETAH.

And both of them are borderline HoF'ers at best like Thome, while Bonds was a Greek God. I can't believe I'm even having to type these words.

Manny was better than thome, and he is most likely a first ballot hall of famer without his steroid issues


you could remove "most likely"

BUT

that's the whole problem, isn't it, you can't know how much of his performance was him, and how much was the juice. IF you care at all about that.


It was all manny and not the juice, because although manny took steroids he didn't work out to reap the benefits


that sounds like an awful lot of certainty for a very uncertain situation, i'm afraid i will gracefully decline your free brochure


I think mj was joshing us.


I really wasn't. Talk to the Indians coaching and front office staff from Manny's era. Guy did not lift weights hardly at all, and when he did not enough to make a difference in his strength.


i agree with Rod then.


I'm siding with mj because I know what he means.

If you don't think that Manny believed that just taking steroids was enough and that he didn't have to work out in order to enhance their benefits, well.....you don't know Manny.
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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Rodney Farva » 26 Jan 2018, 14:53

"it didn't make me stronger, it just helped me recover from injuries quicker"
- Mark McGwire

he could have started juicing when he got to boston and got a little older. who knows? who cares? what are we talking about again? THAT CLOUD!!!!!!!



maaaaaaaan, me and no touchy agreeing. what an uncomfortable feeling, he'd better post something from the ny post or me something from the times so equilibrium can be restored.
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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Dr Jeckyll » 30 Jan 2018, 05:49

Rodney Farva wrote:maaaaaaaan, me and no touchy agreeing. what an uncomfortable feeling, he'd better post something from the ny post or me something from the times so equilibrium can be restored.


Hear ya. Usually I’m on the same page with karate, think he’s reaching on this one tho
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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby TVF wannabe » 30 Jan 2018, 11:18

whatever Manny the hitter was incredible and is a first ballot HOF without steroids.

His average season is 312 39 130 RBI's. I think some of these stat guys that look for reasons to shit on people will say RBI's dont count because their circumstance or some BS but that guy was an amazing hitter and clutch too.

BTW Theny I'll take the power hitting 312 over the slap hitting 312.
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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby ctz31 » 30 Jan 2018, 11:33

TVF wannabe wrote:whatever Manny the hitter was incredible and is a first ballot HOF without steroids.

His average season is 312 39 130 RBI's. I think some of these stat guys that look for reasons to shit on people will say RBI's dont count because their circumstance or some BS but that guy was an amazing hitter and clutch too.

BTW Theny I'll take the power hitting 312 over the slap hitting 312.


ichiro could hit a homerun anytime he wanted. he hit the most in BP every night! /people
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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby TVF wannabe » 30 Jan 2018, 11:52

ctz31 wrote:
TVF wannabe wrote:whatever Manny the hitter was incredible and is a first ballot HOF without steroids.

His average season is 312 39 130 RBI's. I think some of these stat guys that look for reasons to shit on people will say RBI's dont count because their circumstance or some BS but that guy was an amazing hitter and clutch too.

BTW Theny I'll take the power hitting 312 over the slap hitting 312.


ichiro could hit a homerun anytime he wanted. he hit the most in BP every night! /people

Rickey Henderson too, except I believe Rickey, I think he also said he'd have give up 30 points on his BA.
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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Dthefritz » 30 Jan 2018, 18:42

TVF wannabe wrote:whatever Manny the hitter was incredible and is a first ballot HOF without steroids.

If he had been as good as he was without cheating, he wouldn't be kept out out of the HOF for cheating. Solid point.

His average season is 312 39 130 RBI's. I think some of these stat guys that look for reasons to shit on people will say RBI's dont count because their circumstance or some BS but that guy was an amazing hitter and clutch too.

Yeah, I'm sure every back issue of Baseball Prospectus shits all over Manny Ramirez and his hitting ability.

Do you people listen to yourselves?
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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby TheWolf » 30 Jan 2018, 23:10

Dthefritz wrote:
TVF wannabe wrote:whatever Manny the hitter was incredible and is a first ballot HOF without steroids.

If he had been as good as he was without cheating, he wouldn't be kept out out of the HOF for cheating. Solid point.

His average season is 312 39 130 RBI's. I think some of these stat guys that look for reasons to shit on people will say RBI's dont count because their circumstance or some BS but that guy was an amazing hitter and clutch too.

Yeah, I'm sure every back issue of Baseball Prospectus shits all over Manny Ramirez and his hitting ability.

Do you people listen to yourselves?


Manny Ramirez was one of the best hitters I've ever seen. I'm listening to myself, and I believe what I just heard myself say. What's your point?
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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Dthefritz » 31 Jan 2018, 00:01

TheWolf wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
TVF wannabe wrote:whatever Manny the hitter was incredible and is a first ballot HOF without steroids.

If he had been as good as he was without cheating, he wouldn't be kept out out of the HOF for cheating. Solid point.

His average season is 312 39 130 RBI's. I think some of these stat guys that look for reasons to shit on people will say RBI's dont count because their circumstance or some BS but that guy was an amazing hitter and clutch too.

Yeah, I'm sure every back issue of Baseball Prospectus shits all over Manny Ramirez and his hitting ability.

Do you people listen to yourselves?


Manny Ramirez was one of the best hitters I've ever seen. I'm listening to myself, and I believe what I just heard myself say. What's your point?

I wasn't talking to you specifically, but my point is that all this Manny stuff is veering from one strawmen to another. Nobody said if the HoF stopped blackballing roiders, he wouldn't be in. Nobody said he wasn't an awesome hitter. Nobody cited advanced stats in support of him not being an awesome hitter, and I don't believe for a second that any "stats people" with any credibility have done so at any point.

But somebody, somebody on this very board said that on the scale of ballplayers, Manny Ramirez is closer to Bonds than he is to Thome, and that is fucking idiotic.
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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby TheWolf » 31 Jan 2018, 00:26

Dthefritz wrote:
TheWolf wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
TVF wannabe wrote:whatever Manny the hitter was incredible and is a first ballot HOF without steroids.

If he had been as good as he was without cheating, he wouldn't be kept out out of the HOF for cheating. Solid point.

His average season is 312 39 130 RBI's. I think some of these stat guys that look for reasons to shit on people will say RBI's dont count because their circumstance or some BS but that guy was an amazing hitter and clutch too.

Yeah, I'm sure every back issue of Baseball Prospectus shits all over Manny Ramirez and his hitting ability.

Do you people listen to yourselves?


Manny Ramirez was one of the best hitters I've ever seen. I'm listening to myself, and I believe what I just heard myself say. What's your point?

I wasn't talking to you specifically, but my point is that all this Manny stuff is veering from one strawmen to another. Nobody said if the HoF stopped blackballing roiders, he wouldn't be in. Nobody said he wasn't an awesome hitter. Nobody cited advanced stats in support of him not being an awesome hitter, and I don't believe for a second that any "stats people" with any credibility have done so at any point.

But somebody, somebody on this very board said that on the scale of ballplayers, Manny Ramirez is closer to Bonds than he is to Thome, and that is fucking idiotic.


I said that, and I still believe it. Thank you.
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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby The Long Dick of the Law » 31 Jan 2018, 06:50

TheWolf wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
TheWolf wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
TVF wannabe wrote:whatever Manny the hitter was incredible and is a first ballot HOF without steroids.

If he had been as good as he was without cheating, he wouldn't be kept out out of the HOF for cheating. Solid point.

His average season is 312 39 130 RBI's. I think some of these stat guys that look for reasons to shit on people will say RBI's dont count because their circumstance or some BS but that guy was an amazing hitter and clutch too.

Yeah, I'm sure every back issue of Baseball Prospectus shits all over Manny Ramirez and his hitting ability.

Do you people listen to yourselves?


Manny Ramirez was one of the best hitters I've ever seen. I'm listening to myself, and I believe what I just heard myself say. What's your point?

I wasn't talking to you specifically, but my point is that all this Manny stuff is veering from one strawmen to another. Nobody said if the HoF stopped blackballing roiders, he wouldn't be in. Nobody said he wasn't an awesome hitter. Nobody cited advanced stats in support of him not being an awesome hitter, and I don't believe for a second that any "stats people" with any credibility have done so at any point.

But somebody, somebody on this very board said that on the scale of ballplayers, Manny Ramirez is closer to Bonds than he is to Thome, and that is fucking idiotic.


I said that, and I still believe it. Thank you.

Fuck it, I'm gonna wade in here.

How? Bonds PRE-ROIDS was a 5 tool player whereas Manny and Thome weren't. Manny and Thome were great hitters. Bonds was a great hitter who could steal, play great OF (UNLESS SID BREAM WAS INVOLVED, THAT FUCKING SPEEDSTER!!!!). In the end, fuck the roid users. Oh it helps you recover from injuries? In the league with more injuries than any other league (LOOK IT UP, FUCKERS)? None of them needed roids to be HOF players but two we know did and those two aren't in and you know what, fuck you people, I'm fine with that. Everyone's all "Oh the HOF is the history of the league" which A) FALSE, it's celebrating the best of baseball; and B) Bonds, Manny, Thome, etc. all have crap in the HOF's museum. Whatever, I know I'm pissing in the wind here but the whole if you're not cheating you're not trying is bullshit and also, is Clemens a HOF if he doesn't go to Toronto and start roiding his brains out? Look at Johan and what's the difference between the two pre-Clemens roids?
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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Gregs Kite » 31 Jan 2018, 08:44

Dthefritz wrote:Do you people listen to yourselves?


Is there enough 19s in this world to capture this one, fellas? I don't think so.

Also, who said Manny was close to Bonds? Quit being Farva and name names, smartypants.

The Long Dick of the Law wrote:Whatever, I know I'm pissing in the wind here but the whole if you're not cheating you're not trying is bullshit and also, is Clemens a HOF if he doesn't go to Toronto and start roiding his brains out? Look at Johan and what's the difference between the two pre-Clemens roids?


Pre-Toronto Clemens was a borderline Hall of Famer but he was much closer than Johan, sorry. That '86 season was insane. Add a third CY Young and the MVP and he's a clear cut choice over Johan.
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Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Dthefritz » 31 Jan 2018, 08:52

Greg I already specified that it was you earlier in the thread. Something about how Manny was a "transcendent" player like bonds whereas Thome wasn't. That's what started this whole nonsense.

I have to somewhat agree with you about Clemens, and I think he should be in the Hall.
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