ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Dthefritz » 22 Nov 2017, 12:35

Briandong79 wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Briandong79 wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Briandong79 wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
TVF wannabe wrote:Chipper should be first ballot but who the fuck knows what these ONTB writers will decide. They all look to be so smart they figure out ways to keep guys that belong out and to put in guys that dont belong.

"Vlad he hit 318 and had a 380 OBP, he didnt walk enough"

Yes, BBWAA are pretty much the worst. I think Vlad not getting in last year was a matter of "HURR HE'S NOT A FIRST BALLOT GUY". Chipper will face the same obstacle this year. Any stats stuff they throw out is pretty much an after-the-fact justification for that logic.


Chipper played a much less crowded position with less competition for the hall, and for whatever reason, his advanced numbers are significantly better. I don't think he's getting in with 90%+ but he's going to break the threshold, IMO.

I'm not saying Chipper won't necessarily make it, just that people will come up with stupid reasons not to vote for him, as per always. I like how you have the answer right in front of you for why Chipper has better advanced numbers, though, and couldn't put two and two together :mrgreen:


I don't recall Chipper being a huge OBP guy, but I'm sure that accounts for some of it.

Assuming you mean stuff like VORP, WAR, etc, it's about Chipper being a third baseman. As you said, there aren't a lot of people in baseball history who hit like Chipper Jones from the 3B position, whereas Vlad's numbers, while absolutely hall of fame tier, are less impressive relative to the expectations of a corner outfielder.


I honestly have zero idea how those stats take position into account. If so, then yes, that absolutely makes sense.

It's about measuring production against a replacement-level player at your given position. Therefore, a shortstop who hits 30 home runs a year is measured against an average backup shortstop (who would hit maybe 5) as opposed to a corner outfielder, where a guy off the scrapheap would hit 20.
User avatar
Dthefritz
tl;dr
 
Posts: 7874
Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 01:35
Location: In the green, never in between

Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Gregs Kite » 22 Nov 2017, 12:38

Most aptly named thread on the site.

Good lord.
Apr 22, 2015 3:49 pm Clayton Bigsby i enjoy sports

Magnum - Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:36 pm: perhaps my reaction was built up greg hatred finally coming through. fuck that guy.

Frank the Tank wrote:If I die I leave my red font to Kite.
User avatar
Gregs Kite
Friend of Friends
 
Posts: 24461
Joined: 20 Jan 2007, 15:59
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby The Long Dick of the Law » 22 Nov 2017, 12:39

Dthefritz wrote:
Briandong79 wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Briandong79 wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
TVF wannabe wrote:Chipper should be first ballot but who the fuck knows what these ONTB writers will decide. They all look to be so smart they figure out ways to keep guys that belong out and to put in guys that dont belong.

"Vlad he hit 318 and had a 380 OBP, he didnt walk enough"

Yes, BBWAA are pretty much the worst. I think Vlad not getting in last year was a matter of "HURR HE'S NOT A FIRST BALLOT GUY". Chipper will face the same obstacle this year. Any stats stuff they throw out is pretty much an after-the-fact justification for that logic.


Chipper played a much less crowded position with less competition for the hall, and for whatever reason, his advanced numbers are significantly better. I don't think he's getting in with 90%+ but he's going to break the threshold, IMO.

I'm not saying Chipper won't necessarily make it, just that people will come up with stupid reasons not to vote for him, as per always. I like how you have the answer right in front of you for why Chipper has better advanced numbers, though, and couldn't put two and two together :mrgreen:


I don't recall Chipper being a huge OBP guy, but I'm sure that accounts for some of it.

Assuming you mean stuff like VORP, WAR, etc, it's about Chipper being a third baseman. As you said, there aren't a lot of people in baseball history who hit like Chipper Jones from the 3B position, whereas Vlad's numbers, while absolutely hall of fame tier, are less impressive relative to the expectations of a corner outfielder.

.401 career OBP, 16th all time in career walks, .303/.401/.529 as a switch hitter, only switch hitter with a .300/.400/.500 line, if he's not 1st ballot, yoke and I burn Cooperstown to the ground
mister bacon love watching soccer. baseball is about as exciting as scratching my balls.
MisterTambourineMan you're not scratching your balls right, then.
User avatar
The Long Dick of the Law
TRU Patriot
 
Posts: 12792
Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 13:09
Location: Virginia

Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Briandong79 » 22 Nov 2017, 12:40

Dthefritz wrote:
Briandong79 wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Briandong79 wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Briandong79 wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
TVF wannabe wrote:Chipper should be first ballot but who the fuck knows what these ONTB writers will decide. They all look to be so smart they figure out ways to keep guys that belong out and to put in guys that dont belong.

"Vlad he hit 318 and had a 380 OBP, he didnt walk enough"

Yes, BBWAA are pretty much the worst. I think Vlad not getting in last year was a matter of "HURR HE'S NOT A FIRST BALLOT GUY". Chipper will face the same obstacle this year. Any stats stuff they throw out is pretty much an after-the-fact justification for that logic.


Chipper played a much less crowded position with less competition for the hall, and for whatever reason, his advanced numbers are significantly better. I don't think he's getting in with 90%+ but he's going to break the threshold, IMO.

I'm not saying Chipper won't necessarily make it, just that people will come up with stupid reasons not to vote for him, as per always. I like how you have the answer right in front of you for why Chipper has better advanced numbers, though, and couldn't put two and two together :mrgreen:


I don't recall Chipper being a huge OBP guy, but I'm sure that accounts for some of it.

Assuming you mean stuff like VORP, WAR, etc, it's about Chipper being a third baseman. As you said, there aren't a lot of people in baseball history who hit like Chipper Jones from the 3B position, whereas Vlad's numbers, while absolutely hall of fame tier, are less impressive relative to the expectations of a corner outfielder.


I honestly have zero idea how those stats take position into account. If so, then yes, that absolutely makes sense.

It's about measuring production against a replacement-level player at your given position. Therefore, a shortstop who hits 30 home runs a year is measured against an average backup shortstop (who would hit maybe 5) as opposed to a corner outfielder, where a guy off the scrapheap would hit 20.


I always assumed it was more generic player X than that. Good to know!.
PhillyJim76 - Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:20 am: X?I wrote a disturbing clueless fan fiction story that got me in hot water in college
User avatar
Briandong79
Beep Boop
 
Posts: 31421
Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 13:35
Location: MoreCowbell's phone

Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Dthefritz » 22 Nov 2017, 12:49

Briandong79 wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Briandong79 wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Briandong79 wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Briandong79 wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
TVF wannabe wrote:Chipper should be first ballot but who the fuck knows what these ONTB writers will decide. They all look to be so smart they figure out ways to keep guys that belong out and to put in guys that dont belong.

"Vlad he hit 318 and had a 380 OBP, he didnt walk enough"

Yes, BBWAA are pretty much the worst. I think Vlad not getting in last year was a matter of "HURR HE'S NOT A FIRST BALLOT GUY". Chipper will face the same obstacle this year. Any stats stuff they throw out is pretty much an after-the-fact justification for that logic.


Chipper played a much less crowded position with less competition for the hall, and for whatever reason, his advanced numbers are significantly better. I don't think he's getting in with 90%+ but he's going to break the threshold, IMO.

I'm not saying Chipper won't necessarily make it, just that people will come up with stupid reasons not to vote for him, as per always. I like how you have the answer right in front of you for why Chipper has better advanced numbers, though, and couldn't put two and two together :mrgreen:


I don't recall Chipper being a huge OBP guy, but I'm sure that accounts for some of it.

Assuming you mean stuff like VORP, WAR, etc, it's about Chipper being a third baseman. As you said, there aren't a lot of people in baseball history who hit like Chipper Jones from the 3B position, whereas Vlad's numbers, while absolutely hall of fame tier, are less impressive relative to the expectations of a corner outfielder.


I honestly have zero idea how those stats take position into account. If so, then yes, that absolutely makes sense.

It's about measuring production against a replacement-level player at your given position. Therefore, a shortstop who hits 30 home runs a year is measured against an average backup shortstop (who would hit maybe 5) as opposed to a corner outfielder, where a guy off the scrapheap would hit 20.


I always assumed it was more generic player X than that. Good to know!.

TMYK.

The Long Dick of the Law wrote:.401 career OBP, 16th all time in career walks, .303/.401/.529 as a switch hitter, only switch hitter with a .300/.400/.500 line, if he's not 1st ballot, yoke and I burn Cooperstown to the ground

But how many opening day starts did he make???
User avatar
Dthefritz
tl;dr
 
Posts: 7874
Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 01:35
Location: In the green, never in between

Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby SouthernYokel » 22 Nov 2017, 12:49

The Long Dick of the Law wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Briandong79 wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Briandong79 wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
TVF wannabe wrote:Chipper should be first ballot but who the fuck knows what these ONTB writers will decide. They all look to be so smart they figure out ways to keep guys that belong out and to put in guys that dont belong.

"Vlad he hit 318 and had a 380 OBP, he didnt walk enough"

Yes, BBWAA are pretty much the worst. I think Vlad not getting in last year was a matter of "HURR HE'S NOT A FIRST BALLOT GUY". Chipper will face the same obstacle this year. Any stats stuff they throw out is pretty much an after-the-fact justification for that logic.


Chipper played a much less crowded position with less competition for the hall, and for whatever reason, his advanced numbers are significantly better. I don't think he's getting in with 90%+ but he's going to break the threshold, IMO.

I'm not saying Chipper won't necessarily make it, just that people will come up with stupid reasons not to vote for him, as per always. I like how you have the answer right in front of you for why Chipper has better advanced numbers, though, and couldn't put two and two together :mrgreen:


I don't recall Chipper being a huge OBP guy, but I'm sure that accounts for some of it.

Assuming you mean stuff like VORP, WAR, etc, it's about Chipper being a third baseman. As you said, there aren't a lot of people in baseball history who hit like Chipper Jones from the 3B position, whereas Vlad's numbers, while absolutely hall of fame tier, are less impressive relative to the expectations of a corner outfielder.

.401 career OBP, 16th all time in career walks, .303/.401/.529 as a switch hitter, only switch hitter with a .300/.400/.500 line, if he's not 1st ballot, yoke and I burn Cooperstown to the ground


[scottish accent]Burn it.[/scottish]
BostonSucksMyBalls - Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:12 pm: I hope Jax wins next week. If the eagles lose to New England, I’m killing myself on Facebook Live
User avatar
SouthernYokel
Hank the Hangover Turtle
 
Posts: 30400
Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 08:09

Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby The Long Dick of the Law » 22 Nov 2017, 13:01

SouthernYokel wrote:
The Long Dick of the Law wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Briandong79 wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Briandong79 wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
TVF wannabe wrote:Chipper should be first ballot but who the fuck knows what these ONTB writers will decide. They all look to be so smart they figure out ways to keep guys that belong out and to put in guys that dont belong.

"Vlad he hit 318 and had a 380 OBP, he didnt walk enough"

Yes, BBWAA are pretty much the worst. I think Vlad not getting in last year was a matter of "HURR HE'S NOT A FIRST BALLOT GUY". Chipper will face the same obstacle this year. Any stats stuff they throw out is pretty much an after-the-fact justification for that logic.


Chipper played a much less crowded position with less competition for the hall, and for whatever reason, his advanced numbers are significantly better. I don't think he's getting in with 90%+ but he's going to break the threshold, IMO.

I'm not saying Chipper won't necessarily make it, just that people will come up with stupid reasons not to vote for him, as per always. I like how you have the answer right in front of you for why Chipper has better advanced numbers, though, and couldn't put two and two together :mrgreen:


I don't recall Chipper being a huge OBP guy, but I'm sure that accounts for some of it.

Assuming you mean stuff like VORP, WAR, etc, it's about Chipper being a third baseman. As you said, there aren't a lot of people in baseball history who hit like Chipper Jones from the 3B position, whereas Vlad's numbers, while absolutely hall of fame tier, are less impressive relative to the expectations of a corner outfielder.

.401 career OBP, 16th all time in career walks, .303/.401/.529 as a switch hitter, only switch hitter with a .300/.400/.500 line, if he's not 1st ballot, yoke and I burn Cooperstown to the ground


[scottish accent]Burn it.[/scottish]

Image
mister bacon love watching soccer. baseball is about as exciting as scratching my balls.
MisterTambourineMan you're not scratching your balls right, then.
User avatar
The Long Dick of the Law
TRU Patriot
 
Posts: 12792
Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 13:09
Location: Virginia

Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Iron Mike Sharpe » 22 Nov 2017, 13:18

Guys, guys, he's white, he'll get in first ballot.
User avatar
Iron Mike Sharpe
Full of good cheer
 
Posts: 18597
Joined: 11 May 2007, 13:07

Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Dthefritz » 22 Nov 2017, 13:23

Iron Mike Sharpe wrote:Guys, guys, he's white, he'll get in first ballot.

Guerrero isn't really black, he's an impostor! /Torii Hunter
User avatar
Dthefritz
tl;dr
 
Posts: 7874
Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 01:35
Location: In the green, never in between

Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Goose » 11 Dec 2017, 16:15

Balls: I know a guy who came home after high school one day to over hear his mom and dad having a 3some with another lady. He actually went to beat off during it in his room.
mister bacon: Wow no wonder PJ is so fucked up.
User avatar
Goose
Smartest Guy In The Room
 
Posts: 3836
Joined: 03 May 2006, 10:09
Location: Temple Terrace Hooters, waiting on Shamgod

Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby JichaelDick » 11 Dec 2017, 16:25

Trammell shoulda been in a while back.

Jack Morris is the pitching version of Maz.
TVF wannabe - Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:42 pm: ...a good rule of thumb is if you post some thing like that and IMS quickly jumps in with an uncomfortable reference you went too far
User avatar
JichaelDick
Delightful Nutjob
 
Posts: 26431
Joined: 21 Dec 2005, 13:56
Location: Salivating

Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Dthefritz » 11 Dec 2017, 18:20

Sure, Jack Morris doesn't belong anywhere near the HoF, but voting him in will piss off people I don't like, so I'll do it and then use logical fallacies and personal attacks to defend the decision no matter what. Make the Hall of Fame Great Again.
User avatar
Dthefritz
tl;dr
 
Posts: 7874
Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 01:35
Location: In the green, never in between

Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Gregs Kite » 11 Dec 2017, 18:39

Coulda saved a bunch of typing with "Fuck whitey".
Apr 22, 2015 3:49 pm Clayton Bigsby i enjoy sports

Magnum - Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:36 pm: perhaps my reaction was built up greg hatred finally coming through. fuck that guy.

Frank the Tank wrote:If I die I leave my red font to Kite.
User avatar
Gregs Kite
Friend of Friends
 
Posts: 24461
Joined: 20 Jan 2007, 15:59
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby JichaelDick » 26 Dec 2017, 18:16

Our boy Johan is about to be dropped off the ballot, Tambo.

Damn it all.
TVF wannabe - Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:42 pm: ...a good rule of thumb is if you post some thing like that and IMS quickly jumps in with an uncomfortable reference you went too far
User avatar
JichaelDick
Delightful Nutjob
 
Posts: 26431
Joined: 21 Dec 2005, 13:56
Location: Salivating

Re: ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby Gregs Kite » 26 Dec 2017, 18:47

JichaelDick wrote:Our boy Johan is about to be dropped off the ballot, Tambo.

Damn it all.


Was that no hitter worth it?
Apr 22, 2015 3:49 pm Clayton Bigsby i enjoy sports

Magnum - Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:36 pm: perhaps my reaction was built up greg hatred finally coming through. fuck that guy.

Frank the Tank wrote:If I die I leave my red font to Kite.
User avatar
Gregs Kite
Friend of Friends
 
Posts: 24461
Joined: 20 Jan 2007, 15:59
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

PreviousNext

Return to MLB

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests