ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

ENTER THE VORTEX: the baseball hall of fame thread

Postby bostonredsox1002 » 30 Nov 2005, 18:56

There's a pretty interesting column on it at SI

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/w ... index.html

He makes some pretty good arguments, and for the most part I agree with the guy, except the Albert Belle argument. Albert Belle was a great player for 10 years. When you hit 20+ homers and 95+ rbis for 10 years you have to get some consideration. But he only played for 11 seasons. He never hit over 50 home runs. And to me he was just another product of the long ball steroids age.

He makes a good point on 300 game winners and jack morris though. That guy was monstrous in the playoffs.
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Re: Who would you vote on the MLB 05 hall of fame ballot?

Postby nova » 01 Dec 2005, 09:34

Wormser Thiesman wrote:Point: But he only played for 11 seasons. He never hit over 50 home runs.

Counterpoint:And to me he was just another product of the long ball steroids age.


He never hit more than 50 home runs...but was a product of the long ball steroids era? Belle's statitics before the strike were pretty damn good-- in his first full season in the big leagues, he hit .282/28/95.

I agree that he is not a Hall of Famer, but not for that reason. His body of work was much too short to be considered as one of the all-time greats. That, and he fails the "Who would you put on your 'All Decade' team" test. I disagree that there should be a HoF'er voted each year. I think at a maximum, it should 3-4 players per position, per era...but that's just me.
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Postby Briandong79 » 01 Dec 2005, 10:09

Alex Fernandez, RHP (107-87, 3.74)
We've officially hit a lull. What next? Gary Gaetti? The verdict: No.

Gary Gaetti, 3B (.255-360-1,341)
Oh. The verdict: No.


Easy set-up, but this made me laugh. I say no on Belle.

I'd give "yes" votes to Blyleven, Goose, Morris, and maybe Lee Smith. The rest were good but not HOF level players.
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Postby Dunking Donut » 01 Dec 2005, 12:08

Pete Rose.
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Postby JohnnyDamon » 01 Dec 2005, 12:12

Dunking Donut wrote:Pete Rose.


Nope...I'm with Ted Williams. It was a LIFETIME ban. Let him in after he dies. There, I said it. And, on topic, Blyleven, Gossage, Smith, and Morris for sure. I would probably vote for Jim Ed Rice, too.
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Postby Briandong79 » 01 Dec 2005, 12:16

JohnnyDamon wrote:
Dunking Donut wrote:Pete Rose.


Nope...I'm with Ted Williams. It was a LIFETIME ban. Let him in after he dies. There, I said it. And, on topic, Blyleven, Gossage, Smith, and Morris for sure. I would probably vote for Jim Ed Rice, too.


I'm probably the next most torn on Rice, then Aguilera and Sutter. Rice has very similar numbers to Belle but it took him longer, but of course its the whole different era conversation.

I'd give a vote to Andre Dawson too, probably, though he really is one of those guys who its too bad he got injured, because when he was with the Expos, he was one of the best all-around players in the game.
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Postby kaskomm09 » 01 Dec 2005, 12:55

JohnnyDamon wrote:
Dunking Donut wrote:Pete Rose.


Nope...I'm with Ted Williams. It was a LIFETIME ban. Let him in after he dies. There, I said it. And, on topic, Blyleven, Gossage, Smith, and Morris for sure. I would probably vote for Jim Ed Rice, too.


I agree. Let Rose in. If you are going be to letting in cheaters like Bonds & Co. in the next 10 years, you might as well let in all the other cheaters.

On that note... Shoeless Joe.
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Postby JohnnyDamon » 01 Dec 2005, 13:02

Absofuckinglutely, Shoeless Joe should be in...he had the stats, and even if he did accept money to throw the 1919 World Series, there is absolutely NO evidence that he did nothing but give his all in trying to help the White Sox win it all that year.
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Postby BostonSucksMyBalls » 01 Dec 2005, 13:11

JohnnyDamon wrote:Absofuckinglutely, Shoeless Joe should be in...he had the stats, and even if he did accept money to throw the 1919 World Series, there is absolutely NO evidence that he did nothing but give his all in trying to help the White Sox win it all that year.


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Postby Briandong79 » 01 Dec 2005, 13:12

BostonSucksMyBalls wrote:
JohnnyDamon wrote:Absofuckinglutely, Shoeless Joe should be in...he had the stats, and even if he did accept money to throw the 1919 World Series, there is absolutely NO evidence that he did nothing but give his all in trying to help the White Sox win it all that year.


I love all of Damon's historical references, you are 19 Dogg.


Well, the next time our resident 94 year old man is on, we'll be sure to get his opinion on the 1919 Black Sox scandal.
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Postby JohnnyDamon » 01 Dec 2005, 13:12

Yes, but I do have ESPNClassic, so I've seen the "5 Reasons you can't blame the White Sox for throwing the 1919 World Series" about 345 times.
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Postby BostonSucksMyBalls » 01 Dec 2005, 13:14

JohnnyDamon wrote:Yes, but I do have ESPNClassic, so I've seen the "5 Reasons you can't blame the White Sox for throwing the 1919 World Series" about 345 times.


How could you sit thru that???????
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Postby JohnnyDamon » 01 Dec 2005, 13:16

It was hard...by the time I was done, Brian Kenny was talking to me in my sleep. It was not good times.
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Postby bostonredsox1002 » 01 Dec 2005, 17:43

Of the 10 most similar batters to jim rice on baseball reference.com, 4 are hall of famers (Billy Williams, Orlando Cepdea, Duke Snider, Willie Stargell), and 4 aren't even eligible for the Hall of fame yet. That said, I think you ought to elect Jim Rice in for consistency through the years.
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Postby theken » 04 Dec 2005, 17:11

Is Joe Carter eligible for Hall of Fame yet? If so, I'd definitely give him my vote. He hit quite possibly the single most clutch home run in history, screw Albert Pooholes. He's got 396 career dingers, nearly 1500 ribbies, send him to Cooperstown.
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