They Call It Football: The Consolidated Soccer Thread

Re: They Call It Football: The Consolidated Soccer Thread

Postby the cheese » 11 Oct 2017, 13:13

TheWolf wrote:
the cheese wrote:I personally enjoy the "pay to play soccer is killing soccer in this country!" argument.

On face, yeah, that's right. If you want to get the best talent playing at the highest level, you shouldn't make access to coaching contingent on a $3-5K per year youth club soccer team (which is approximately what the coaching and training fee is for the main club in my town, which is where curds 1 and 3 want to play) fees before you even start traveling to tournaments and summer skills camp and shit. That's a grift, not a development program. You shouldn't limit access to basically rich kids and physically dominant charity cases. That's not a winner.

Pro teams in the USL and the NASL and the MLS ought to be funding youth academies, as should US Soccer, but those organizations have zero incentive to develop their own talent and parents have this ridiculous connection between playing sports and earning a college scholarship. Folks, there aren't college scholarships for soccer. Not that are worth anything.

But every other sport in this country is like that, specifically baseball. Jesus Christ baseball is expensive. They do just fine.


I have no point.


Point or no, you ain't wrong.


I mean, we went to the local, for want of a better term, Double A soccer team a couple weeks ago. Had a blast. There were Mexicans* playing their music in the stands, garg looking hipsters with huge flags and flares and shit, little kids running around with their faces painted, all kinds of shit in the end zones, all the local breweries had trucks outside selling beer in the parking lot. Great way to spend a Sunday afternoon.

Black or white, there weren't five American names on that roster. It was entirely Dominicans, Costa Ricans, Panamanians, Hondurans, and Slavs all gunning for a shot at MLS.
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Re: They Call It Football: The Consolidated Soccer Thread

Postby SouthernYokel » 11 Oct 2017, 15:24

ONE WORD: Relegation
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Re: They Call It Football: The Consolidated Soccer Thread

Postby the cheese » 11 Oct 2017, 15:30

SouthernYokel wrote:ONE WORD: Relegation


The MLS is ponzi scheme married to a heavily leverage real estate development effort. Nobody is putting that money at risk.
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Re: They Call It Football: The Consolidated Soccer Thread

Postby ONTB » 11 Oct 2017, 20:21

CourtesyFlush wrote:I guess we're not going to the World Cup next year, huh. I think this pretty much sums it up.

Taylor Twellman's commentary was pretty spot on as well. ONTB, thoughts?


http://americansoccernow.com/articles/t ... opment-gap

That sums it up pretty well. Your 23 - 27 year olds should drive the team. Pretty much when physical ability, technical skill and tactic understanding comes together. Especially true for mid fielders and wide players. The US has almost no one worth a damn in that age range. But that wasn't a surprise. That part of the player pool failed in every major youth tournament. It was a well known issue. Still, they should have found a way to qualify with what they had.

Going with Arena meant they would rely on the older players, and current and former MLS guys he knew. That was obviously a mistake. And they'd be outclassed tactically. I think sticking with Jurgen or going to someone else might have resulted in them using more of the younger players in these important games. Instead, Arena was asking Bradley to be box to box on 4 days rest, asking Omar Gonzalez and Matt Besler to be distributors, playing Nagbe and Arriola in no man's land, the whole thing was just absurd. I mean Geoff Cameron has had issues and he spells his name with a G, but he's head and shoulders better than those two guys.

On the plus side, the future looks pretty damn good. There are a ton of young players already getting run on quality squads. The academy system is better than it's ever been and it will only get better. More European clubs are looking to the US for talent. The domestic league has issues, but it's a net positive. We're never going to fully solve the pay for play or NCAA issues, but we can mitigate.

So, the US was going to have a shit World Cup had they made it anyway. But I blame Arena for all this. A competent manager figures out how get to third place in the Hex with this pool. Just needed someone with the balls to dump Bradley, Altidore, etc.
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Re: They Call It Football: The Consolidated Soccer Thread

Postby the cheese » 12 Oct 2017, 08:33

ONTB wrote:
CourtesyFlush wrote:I guess we're not going to the World Cup next year, huh. I think this pretty much sums it up.

Taylor Twellman's commentary was pretty spot on as well. ONTB, thoughts?


http://americansoccernow.com/articles/t ... opment-gap

That sums it up pretty well. Your 23 - 27 year olds should drive the team. Pretty much when physical ability, technical skill and tactic understanding comes together. Especially true for mid fielders and wide players. The US has almost no one worth a damn in that age range. But that wasn't a surprise. That part of the player pool failed in every major youth tournament. It was a well known issue. Still, they should have found a way to qualify with what they had.

Going with Arena meant they would rely on the older players, and current and former MLS guys he knew. That was obviously a mistake. And they'd be outclassed tactically. I think sticking with Jurgen or going to someone else might have resulted in them using more of the younger players in these important games. Instead, Arena was asking Bradley to be box to box on 4 days rest, asking Omar Gonzalez and Matt Besler to be distributors, playing Nagbe and Arriola in no man's land, the whole thing was just absurd. I mean Geoff Cameron has had issues and he spells his name with a G, but he's head and shoulders better than those two guys.

On the plus side, the future looks pretty damn good. There are a ton of young players already getting run on quality squads. The academy system is better than it's ever been and it will only get better. More European clubs are looking to the US for talent. The domestic league has issues, but it's a net positive. We're never going to fully solve the pay for play or NCAA issues, but we can mitigate.

So, the US was going to have a shit World Cup had they made it anyway. But I blame Arena for all this. A competent manager figures out how get to third place in the Hex with this pool. Just needed someone with the balls to dump Bradley, Altidore, etc.


Altidore was never going to be the guy, but that guy is really the poster child for picking your spots better. Go to Europe, try to get on in the Premier league, but don't sign up with historically bad organizations like Hull and Sunderland. Jesus.
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Re: They Call It Football: The Consolidated Soccer Thread

Postby ONTB » 12 Oct 2017, 11:21

the cheese wrote:Altidore was never going to be the guy, but that guy is really the poster child for picking your spots better. Go to Europe, try to get on in the Premier league, but don't sign up with historically bad organizations like Hull and Sunderland. Jesus.


I'm sort of torn on Altidore and Bradley. Bradley's 30 and Altidore will be 28 next month. I don't know it's fair to look at those guys and say they should be leading a national team-- especially Bradley, the guy has a ton of miles on him. They are both on the back end of their careers and should be asked to do less and less with the national team. Bradley was at his best with Mönchengladbach and Altidore was at his best with AZ. That was ~5 years ago. You're watching probably 75 percent of what those players were at their best.

You can look at them and say they are a big part of the reason the US sucks right now, but should they even still be first choice for the national team at their ages? Jurgen said it after the last cycle, the young guys need to push the old guys out. Never happened. Altidore was really good in the qualification cycle for 2014. Like best player on the field good for a lot of those matches. Bradley has been an important part of the national team since 2007. People act as if it's the 2018 World Cup cycle-- time for these guys to finally step up! Nope, they've already had their great moments for the national team. It was time for someone else to shine.

Honestly, I think Altidore and Bradley are success cases for US soccer. Both were identified by US Soccer early. They played together as part of a very successful U20 team. They excelled early in the domestic league. Then had some semblance of careers in Europe. Yeah, it sucks that Altidore couldn't cut it in La Liga and also looked bad on loans, but by the time he got to Hull City on loan, the guy was pretty much a finished product, and he was certainly all he was ever going to be by the time he got to Sunderland. You don't make massive strides in your technical capability when you're 21 and 22-- that happens earlier. And I can guarantee whatever training he was getting at Villarreal and Hull was world's better than what he would have gotten in MLS at the time.
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Re: They Call It Football: The Consolidated Soccer Thread

Postby BostonSucksMyBalls » 12 Oct 2017, 16:14

ONTB wrote:
the cheese wrote:Altidore was never going to be the guy, but that guy is really the poster child for picking your spots better. Go to Europe, try to get on in the Premier league, but don't sign up with historically bad organizations like Hull and Sunderland. Jesus.


I'm sort of torn on Altidore and Bradley. Bradley's 30 and Altidore will be 28 next month. I don't know it's fair to look at those guys and say they should be leading a national team-- especially Bradley, the guy has a ton of miles on him. They are both on the back end of their careers and should be asked to do less and less with the national team. Bradley was at his best with Mönchengladbach and Altidore was at his best with AZ. That was ~5 years ago. You're watching probably 75 percent of what those players were at their best.

You can look at them and say they are a big part of the reason the US sucks right now, but should they even still be first choice for the national team at their ages? Jurgen said it after the last cycle, the young guys need to push the old guys out. Never happened. Altidore was really good in the qualification cycle for 2014. Like best player on the field good for a lot of those matches. Bradley has been an important part of the national team since 2007. People act as if it's the 2018 World Cup cycle-- time for these guys to finally step up! Nope, they've already had their great moments for the national team. It was time for someone else to shine.

Honestly, I think Altidore and Bradley are success cases for US soccer. Both were identified by US Soccer early. They played together as part of a very successful U20 team. They excelled early in the domestic league. Then had some semblance of careers in Europe. Yeah, it sucks that Altidore couldn't cut it in La Liga and also looked bad on loans, but by the time he got to Hull City on loan, the guy was pretty much a finished product, and he was certainly all he was ever going to be by the time he got to Sunderland. You don't make massive strides in your technical capability when you're 21 and 22-- that happens earlier. And I can guarantee whatever training he was getting at Villarreal and Hull was world's better than what he would have gotten in MLS at the time.


Me and PJ were just talking about this the other day.
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Re: They Call It Football: The Consolidated Soccer Thread

Postby TheWolf » 12 Oct 2017, 16:26

BostonSucksMyBalls wrote:
ONTB wrote:
the cheese wrote:Altidore was never going to be the guy, but that guy is really the poster child for picking your spots better. Go to Europe, try to get on in the Premier league, but don't sign up with historically bad organizations like Hull and Sunderland. Jesus.


I'm sort of torn on Altidore and Bradley. Bradley's 30 and Altidore will be 28 next month. I don't know it's fair to look at those guys and say they should be leading a national team-- especially Bradley, the guy has a ton of miles on him. They are both on the back end of their careers and should be asked to do less and less with the national team. Bradley was at his best with Mönchengladbach and Altidore was at his best with AZ. That was ~5 years ago. You're watching probably 75 percent of what those players were at their best.

You can look at them and say they are a big part of the reason the US sucks right now, but should they even still be first choice for the national team at their ages? Jurgen said it after the last cycle, the young guys need to push the old guys out. Never happened. Altidore was really good in the qualification cycle for 2014. Like best player on the field good for a lot of those matches. Bradley has been an important part of the national team since 2007. People act as if it's the 2018 World Cup cycle-- time for these guys to finally step up! Nope, they've already had their great moments for the national team. It was time for someone else to shine.

Honestly, I think Altidore and Bradley are success cases for US soccer. Both were identified by US Soccer early. They played together as part of a very successful U20 team. They excelled early in the domestic league. Then had some semblance of careers in Europe. Yeah, it sucks that Altidore couldn't cut it in La Liga and also looked bad on loans, but by the time he got to Hull City on loan, the guy was pretty much a finished product, and he was certainly all he was ever going to be by the time he got to Sunderland. You don't make massive strides in your technical capability when you're 21 and 22-- that happens earlier. And I can guarantee whatever training he was getting at Villarreal and Hull was world's better than what he would have gotten in MLS at the time.


Me and PJ were just talking about this the other day.


Kinda pissed you guys didn't let me in on that convo.
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Re: They Call It Football: The Consolidated Soccer Thread

Postby CourtesyFlush » 13 Oct 2017, 11:16

I saw somewhere that Tab Ramos is a leading candidate to be the next USMNT coach. ONTB, thoughts?
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Re: They Call It Football: The Consolidated Soccer Thread

Postby ONTB » 13 Oct 2017, 19:21

CourtesyFlush wrote:I saw somewhere that Tab Ramos is a leading candidate to be the next USMNT coach. ONTB, thoughts?


Have to defer to BSMB. I know he’s spent more time watching the youth teams.
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Re: They Call It Football: The Consolidated Soccer Thread

Postby TheWolf » 13 Oct 2017, 19:50

ONTB wrote:
CourtesyFlush wrote:I saw somewhere that Tab Ramos is a leading candidate to be the next USMNT coach. ONTB, thoughts?


Have to defer to BSMB. I know he’s spent more time watching the youth teams.


That was savage af.
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Re: They Call It Football: The Consolidated Soccer Thread

Postby Jew Jitsu » 19 Oct 2017, 09:28

5th out of 6 in the easiest qualification pot in the world lol
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