This offseason is not lookin too hot

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This offseason is not lookin too hot

Postby Snake » 17 Dec 2004, 03:25

I like the David Wells signing as a third starter, and I like the Renteria signing as well. Honestly, I would complain if we traded Manny for two bad contracts and signed Beltran, because we've already got Johnny Damon in center and Beltran is a similar albeit better player. Fortunately, that's not going to happen. However, we've already lost out on Pavano (who I'm not really sold on, honestly), Hudson, Wright, Randy Johnson, Pedro, Ortiz (both Russ and Ramon) and who knows how many other guys. Right now it looks like our top three starters are going to be over 37, and that's not a good sign. If we go out and overpay Matt Clement, it will be even worse. I love Tecmo's Ben Sheets suggestion, but it doesn't look likely.

On the offensive side we've got two average first basemen who want to start, we haven't resigned the catcher (though that's a matter of time, gulp), a guy whose already had his career year at third, and the strikeout king at second. But honestly, except at first and assuming Tek resigns I'm happy with the lineup, we'd be better off committing money to the pen then breaking the bank on a Beltran type.

In the bullpen, things are getting dicey. I love the Mantei signing, but we just can't count on him to stay healthy. I wonder if, assuming his head is on straight, it might not be worth going after Ugueth Urbina might not be a guy to look at in a setup role. This guy is only 1 year removed from closing for the world champs, he's only 30, and the Tigers want to dump him since they signed Percival. Perhaps for Millar? Eric Milton is the only pitcher still available that I like, though I wouldn't complain about Radke either, but if we've got three shut down guys in the pen (Mantei, Ugie, and Foulke) I'd feel much more comfortable going into the season with our rotation and picking up another starter at the deadline. Any thoughts on how we can salvage this mess?
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Postby Dunking Donut » 17 Dec 2004, 08:53

IIRC, the decent pitchers available are: Milton, Millwood, Clement, and Lowe.

At this point, the Sox might have to pay a premium to get one of them. Option 2 is to make a trade now and option 3 is to try and stay close until June and sell the farm for Ben Sheets. The Yankees don't have anybody left after the trade for Randy to make a splash in June, IMO. The Sox do (Youklis, HanRam, Shoppach, Millar/Mienkewicz).

I'm pretty comfortable everywhere else, except a #2 pitcher. At this point, I've lost hope on 'Tek but I'd rather see them spend his money on a quality #2 or co-#1 guy.
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Postby howboutafrescahmmm » 17 Dec 2004, 09:23

and the strikeout king at second.

He is also the walk king and he comes through when it matters, bill mueller is going to continue to be solid (and also clutch)

However like you said we need to sort out the 1B situation and nab maybe Clement, although I think Burrnett is still out there as well,
"The Yankees have that guy (Tony) Womack playing left field," Henderson said. "If I can't play that position at least as well as he can, I'll hang up the spikes right now.'' ? Rickey Henderson.
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Postby Tecmo Bo » 17 Dec 2004, 11:25

Burnett is still out there, and bear in mind, there are 30 teams after these guys. Sheets wasn't my suggestion, I believe Rickey was the one who first mentioned him. An astute call on his part IMHO.
Bellhorn doesn't concern me. None of the offense really does.
***side note***
btw, not fair to compare Beltran to Damon. They both play CF, but Beltran has more range, a far superior arm, lots more power, better OBP and over the last 4 years, has 149 SB's as opposed to 15 times caught stealing, roughly a 90% success rate. Filthy. Put Johnny in LF/RF and let Beltran cut loose.
***end side note***
The Bullpen is solid to say the least.
So the only concern is the Rotation. Schilling is Schilling. Wells is old and fat, but let's be honest, when he rolled out there as a Yankee, you hoped his back was gonna buckle, because otherwise he was gonna be brutal on us. Arroyo is a Solid #3 and is young enough that he can still improve. Wakefield is to the pitchers what Tek is to the hitters and I have no gripe with him as a #4. #5 is still open with possible options including Kim, Alvarez and Billy Traber, who might turn out to be a bigger steal than even Mantei. He's recovering from TJ but this kid (he's 25) can pitch and he's a lefty.
From BA circa 2002 "Pure and simple, Traber is a winner. He finished second in the minors with 17 wins. He isn?t overpowering but has a variety of pitches and an unorthodox delivery. He?s a strike thrower with good life and movement on all his pitches, making it tough for hitters to make hard contact. His fastball has below-average velocity at 87-88 mph, but its movement and Traber?s delivery make it a solid pitch. His curveball and splitter are also reliable."
Randy Johnson they're not but the Yankees are going about this offseason just like last year's. Pavano could easily be Vazquez redux, the Johnson deal seems to have more snags than a briar bush and Milton and Wright!? LOL.
Relax Sox fans. Your team will be good and never forget what happened two months ago.
bosux191820042090: what kills more is that now more than ever the team needs him[A-Rod] to put it on his back, and he can't...i hate to say this, but if given a choice i would rather have ortiz on my team any day
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Postby Dino » 17 Dec 2004, 12:28

Tecmo Bo wrote:Relax Sox fans. Your team will be good and never forget what happened two months ago.


Now that's some good advice. I know that I'm already getting worked up by the way the off-season is shaping up. Yesterday in particular sucked. I'm glad to read this morning that the RJ deal isn't as done as it was reported last night. The MFY have finally lost there mind. There's a chance that they could out spend us by $100 million (that's assuming that they get Beltran). That's just plain wrong. But enough about them. They suck and hopefully will turn out to be the same team that we have seen from them for the last 4 years.

I think at this point we really need to get Burnett. I'm hoping that HanRam will be enough bait to pull that off. If you can throw Clement in our rotation as well and I think that we'll in good shape. I'm not high on Milton (because of the gopher balls) or Millwood (seems to be the Lowe of the Philly).

Our offense is more than fine. No need to discuss anything there. V-Tek will be back. Who else is even bidding for him? He?ll get a decent deal from us.

Like I said in the beginning, good advice. We?re still World Champs, no matter how much it?s driving the Yanks crazy.
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Postby Frank the Tank » 17 Dec 2004, 13:51

Dino wrote:Our offense is more than fine. No need to discuss anything there. V-Tek will be back. Who else is even bidding for him? He?ll get a decent deal from us.

While I agree we'll be fine, rumor has it that the Dodgers may use some of the money freed up by Beltre's departure to make a run at Varitek. I still think he'll wind up back in Boston, but it's too early to feel too comfortable about the situation.
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Postby Rickey Sez » 17 Dec 2004, 14:15

Burnett. Please let it be Burnett.
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Postby Snake » 17 Dec 2004, 18:29

Well said on the never forget Bo, but winning the series doesn't give the Sox the right to mail in the season. Looks like we're throwing a ton of money at Clement, I don't get that one. Here's an NL pitcher with even less of a track record than Pavano and he's on the wrong side of 30. Burnett, Millwood, Milton, Radker, all better options. The Johnson to NY deal will get done at some point, but that doesn't scare me. They didn't win until Schilling got there and they fell apart after he left. RJ is a nice pitcher, but at 41 for 16 mil? That's a Steinbrenner desperation move. Bo, I'm not going to argue that Beltran is a better player than Damon, what I will argue is that by inserting Beltran instead of Ramirez you're taking out a bopper and replacing him with a sparkplug (albeit the best sparkplug in the league). Sparkplugs we've got, boppers we've only got two. Would it be nice if Manny knew that there was a baseball game going on around him? Of course, but he brings more than enough to the table as a hitter. Remember that Beltran wasn't even an All-Star before this year, and Manny's an MVP. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Postby Tecmo Bo » 17 Dec 2004, 18:52

Manny is definitely more of the bopper style, but Beltran can put the bo in the bop she bop shebop as well as anyone as well as add some rama lama ding dong with his sparkplug attitude and abilities. I'm not saying I would make the deal (though beltran being only 27 is nice) just that I wouldn't lament the state of affairs if it was made.
True that beltran wasn't an All-Star before this year, but that was an injustice to put it mildly, partly owing to his presence in KC, partly owing to the favoritism Torre shows his boys when he picks for the AS game (Any idea how much fun THAT will be this year for Tito?) and partly due to the glut of quality OFers in the AL.
bosux191820042090: what kills more is that now more than ever the team needs him[A-Rod] to put it on his back, and he can't...i hate to say this, but if given a choice i would rather have ortiz on my team any day
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Postby Snake » 18 Dec 2004, 01:10

Can anyone else see Tito just saying screw it and bringing his entire pitching staff like the years when Torre brought Mike Stanton just because he could? I'd certainly pay to see that. I wouldn't complain if we got Beltran, but I'd rather have Manny at this point with this team. But Bo, you said our pen was solid to say the least? If it was so good then how come we had to keep trotting Derek Lowe out there in the postseason? How come we had Foulke pitching 3 innings a night? Timlin is older than Curt Schilling and Myers can't get anybody who doesn't swing left handed out. It seems like there are better options to shore up the pen available now, and that we can get another starter later. But then I do wish I had your faith, brutha.
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Postby Tecmo Bo » 18 Dec 2004, 08:35

For one, Foulke not only Likes throwing a lot of innings, he feels he pitches better when he does so. For another thing, when it comes to the playoffs, you put your best guy on the mound, you don't worry about what might happen tomorrow.
Timlin is solid as is Embree with Foulke being an exceptional closer. Myers shouldn't be asked to get any non-lefties out The back three guys in a bullpen are certainly the most important, which is why I say it's solid to say the least. Now the Sox have added Matt Mantei to the mix. Injury prone? Yes. Excellent when he's healthy? Yes.
bosux191820042090: what kills more is that now more than ever the team needs him[A-Rod] to put it on his back, and he can't...i hate to say this, but if given a choice i would rather have ortiz on my team any day
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Postby Snake » 18 Dec 2004, 19:34

Maybe we should bring Derek Lowe back as our big game guy. He sits on the bench and makes the Derek Lowe face all season, then when the big games come in we bring him in. Foulke likes throwing a lot of innings, but I don't want him to throw those innings in May. All pitchers like throwing lots of innings (except maybe for a few left handed specialists) but that doesn't mean it's the best thing for the team. As good as his numbers have been, how safe do you feel when Mike Timlin goes out to pitch? I just don't think we can count on Mantei to be healthy, and Timlin is a lousy safety night for the games after Foulke 3 inning stints. Plus he's ancient, and he's going to be the first of the old guys on our staff to lose it.
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Postby howboutafrescahmmm » 21 Dec 2004, 08:55

Well unlike most pitchers who enjoy racking up the innings, we don't really have to worry about Foulke losing speed or much accuracy. Unlike a guy like Pedro when Foulke wants to pitch the extra inning you should probably let him do it. Bring back Lowe as our big game guy? haha You may have something there just because it includes the Derek Lowe face. I think it would be alot like watching Bill Cowher on the side lines every Sunday
"The Yankees have that guy (Tony) Womack playing left field," Henderson said. "If I can't play that position at least as well as he can, I'll hang up the spikes right now.'' ? Rickey Henderson.
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Postby Snake » 21 Dec 2004, 23:35

And you just can't argue with his success in the playoffs. The regular season? Not so sure about that. Maybe we should stash him in Triple A all year so he doesn't mess up our regular season, then bring him up for the playoffs. That could work.
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Postby howboutafrescahmmm » 22 Dec 2004, 07:32

Snake wrote:And you just can't argue with his success in the playoffs. The regular season? Not so sure about that. Maybe we should stash him in Triple A all year so he doesn't mess up our regular season, then bring him up for the playoffs. That could work.



Maybe a shrink might help?? Although seeing him up with the Portland Sea Dogs would be amusing.
"The Yankees have that guy (Tony) Womack playing left field," Henderson said. "If I can't play that position at least as well as he can, I'll hang up the spikes right now.'' ? Rickey Henderson.
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