Ballbag Bill does a Mailbag 9.22.17

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Re: Ballbag Bill does a Mailbag 9.22.17

Postby Dthefritz » 24 Sep 2017, 12:04

Gregs Kite wrote:He deserved both rings.

He was lucky to win both rings.

Doesn't have to be all or nothing. Weird, huh?

Oh look, a Boston fan made a disingenuous, backhanded compliment and asked for a pat on the back for his even-handedness. Did the sun rise in the East today?

Look, I hate the Giants, their fans, and Eli Manning. He may be on balance a mediocre NFL QB. But he is no more lucky to win a ring than anybody else in the history of forever. He had a great defense behind him, and all he needed to do in each Super Bowl was make a couple of big plays when the time was right and he did. That's all there is to it. For any further discussion I direct you to the work of my colleague Drew Magary and his award-winning piece "Dear Bill SImmons: The Helmet Catch was Not Luck".
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Re: Ballbag Bill does a Mailbag 9.22.17

Postby Gregs Kite » 24 Sep 2017, 17:27

Dthefritz wrote:
Gregs Kite wrote:He deserved both rings.

He was lucky to win both rings.

Doesn't have to be all or nothing. Weird, huh?

Oh look, a Boston fan made a disingenuous, backhanded compliment and asked for a pat on the back for his even-handedness. Did the sun rise in the East today?

Look, I hate the Giants, their fans, and Eli Manning. He may be on balance a mediocre NFL QB. But he is no more lucky to win a ring than anybody else in the history of forever. He had a great defense behind him, and all he needed to do in each Super Bowl was make a couple of big plays when the time was right and he did. That's all there is to it. For any further discussion I direct you to the work of my colleague Drew Magary and his award-winning piece "Dear Bill SImmons: The Helmet Catch was Not Luck".


Did I ask for a pat on the back, you humorless prick? You made yet another wide, sweeping generalization of Patriot fans (that I can assure you is super fresh and not tiring) and I retorted.

The fucking sack on you to claim the Tyree or Manningham catches weren't luck. Look at his entire career and explain to me how his two titles weren't the result of good fortune.

Take a break from this dude. You need mental help. I'm not kidding.
Apr 22, 2015 3:49 pm Clayton Bigsby i enjoy sports

Magnum - Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:36 pm: perhaps my reaction was built up greg hatred finally coming through. fuck that guy.

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Re: Ballbag Bill does a Mailbag 9.22.17

Postby JichaelDick » 24 Sep 2017, 17:49

The Manningham play wasn't pure luck...just a helluva pass put in the one perfect spot. It was no luckier than the play Julio made in Super Bowl 51. Even the Tyree play saw Eli make a helluva move to get out of a sure sack and get a chance for the heave and hope.
TVF wannabe - Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:42 pm: ...a good rule of thumb is if you post some thing like that and IMS quickly jumps in with an uncomfortable reference you went too far
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Re: Ballbag Bill does a Mailbag 9.22.17

Postby Gregs Kite » 24 Sep 2017, 18:00

JichaelDick wrote:The Manningham play wasn't pure luck...just a helluva pass put in the one perfect spot. It was no luckier than the play Julio made in Super Bowl 51. Even the Tyree play saw Eli make a helluva move to get out of a sure sack and get a chance for the heave and hope.


Again, I would argue, given the course and results of Eli's career, those throws were luck. You're not convincing me otherwise.

But facts are facts, he completed both and he deserves both rings.
Apr 22, 2015 3:49 pm Clayton Bigsby i enjoy sports

Magnum - Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:36 pm: perhaps my reaction was built up greg hatred finally coming through. fuck that guy.

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Re: Ballbag Bill does a Mailbag 9.22.17

Postby Dthefritz » 24 Sep 2017, 18:04

Gregs Kite wrote:Look at his entire career and explain to me how his two titles weren't the result of good fortune.

This is exactly my bone to pick. He's no luckier than any mediocre player who happened to make a big play in a big spot. It doesn't matter how many interceptions he threw in week 12 games over the years, he did what he needed to do in those two SB's. As Jike explained, those plays weren't just blind luck.

Yes, he was fortunate enough to have great teammates and be in a position to win a Super Bowl, but that's true of anybody.
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Re: Ballbag Bill does a Mailbag 9.22.17

Postby Gregs Kite » 24 Sep 2017, 18:08

Dthefritz wrote:
Gregs Kite wrote:Look at his entire career and explain to me how his two titles weren't the result of good fortune.

This is exactly my bone to pick. He's no luckier than any mediocre player who happened to make a big play in a big spot. It doesn't matter how many interceptions he threw in week 12 games over the years, he did what he needed to do in those two SB's. As Jike explained, those plays weren't just blind luck.

Yes, he was fortunate enough to have great teammates and be in a position to win a Super Bowl, but that's true of anybody.


Not in the context of overall careers. Find me a worst two time Super Bowl winning QB. Please. He hucked two throws and they were luckily caught. There is no better "right time right place" QB.
Apr 22, 2015 3:49 pm Clayton Bigsby i enjoy sports

Magnum - Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:36 pm: perhaps my reaction was built up greg hatred finally coming through. fuck that guy.

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Re: Ballbag Bill does a Mailbag 9.22.17

Postby Dthefritz » 24 Sep 2017, 18:25

Gregs Kite wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Gregs Kite wrote:Look at his entire career and explain to me how his two titles weren't the result of good fortune.

This is exactly my bone to pick. He's no luckier than any mediocre player who happened to make a big play in a big spot. It doesn't matter how many interceptions he threw in week 12 games over the years, he did what he needed to do in those two SB's. As Jike explained, those plays weren't just blind luck.

Yes, he was fortunate enough to have great teammates and be in a position to win a Super Bowl, but that's true of anybody.


Not in the context of overall careers. Find me a worst two time Super Bowl winning QB. Please. He hucked two throws and they were luckily caught. There is no better "right time right place" QB.

In all seriousness, I think he's a better QB than Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson and Flacco. On balance, you could argue he played better in those two SB victories than "Ben" played in his, despite his obviously inferior career record. I'm sure in the days before I watched fooobawwr, there were other non-great QB's who won Super Bowls.

But I stand my original point. Shitty players making great plays in big moments - it happens in sports. You might even say it's why we watch.
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Re: Ballbag Bill does a Mailbag 9.22.17

Postby JichaelDick » 24 Sep 2017, 18:26

Gregs Kite wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Gregs Kite wrote:Look at his entire career and explain to me how his two titles weren't the result of good fortune.

This is exactly my bone to pick. He's no luckier than any mediocre player who happened to make a big play in a big spot. It doesn't matter how many interceptions he threw in week 12 games over the years, he did what he needed to do in those two SB's. As Jike explained, those plays weren't just blind luck.

Yes, he was fortunate enough to have great teammates and be in a position to win a Super Bowl, but that's true of anybody.


Not in the context of overall careers. Find me a worst two time Super Bowl winning QB. Please.


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TVF wannabe - Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:42 pm: ...a good rule of thumb is if you post some thing like that and IMS quickly jumps in with an uncomfortable reference you went too far
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Re: Ballbag Bill does a Mailbag 9.22.17

Postby JT99 » 24 Sep 2017, 18:47

JichaelDick wrote:
Gregs Kite wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Gregs Kite wrote:Look at his entire career and explain to me how his two titles weren't the result of good fortune.

This is exactly my bone to pick. He's no luckier than any mediocre player who happened to make a big play in a big spot. It doesn't matter how many interceptions he threw in week 12 games over the years, he did what he needed to do in those two SB's. As Jike explained, those plays weren't just blind luck.

Yes, he was fortunate enough to have great teammates and be in a position to win a Super Bowl, but that's true of anybody.


Not in the context of overall careers. Find me a worst two time Super Bowl winning QB. Please.


Image


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Re: Ballbag Bill does a Mailbag 9.22.17

Postby Gregs Kite » 24 Sep 2017, 18:49

Dthefritz wrote:
Gregs Kite wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Gregs Kite wrote:Look at his entire career and explain to me how his two titles weren't the result of good fortune.

This is exactly my bone to pick. He's no luckier than any mediocre player who happened to make a big play in a big spot. It doesn't matter how many interceptions he threw in week 12 games over the years, he did what he needed to do in those two SB's. As Jike explained, those plays weren't just blind luck.

Yes, he was fortunate enough to have great teammates and be in a position to win a Super Bowl, but that's true of anybody.


Not in the context of overall careers. Find me a worst two time Super Bowl winning QB. Please. He hucked two throws and they were luckily caught. There is no better "right time right place" QB.

In all seriousness, I think he's a better QB than Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson and Flacco. On balance, you could argue he played better in those two SB victories than "Ben" played in his, despite his obviously inferior career record. I'm sure in the days before I watched fooobawwr, there were other non-great QB's who won Super Bowls.

But I stand my original point. Shitty players making great plays in big moments - it happens in sports. You might even say it's why we watch.



You listed all one time winners, lighting in a bottle champs. Manning won two, which given the overall context of his career, is much more representative of a system QB who made a couple lucky throws.

Again. And please read carefully.... They can be great plays and lucky at the same time.


PS: Thanks Jike. No one knows who that is.
Apr 22, 2015 3:49 pm Clayton Bigsby i enjoy sports

Magnum - Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:36 pm: perhaps my reaction was built up greg hatred finally coming through. fuck that guy.

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Re: Ballbag Bill does a Mailbag 9.22.17

Postby Dthefritz » 24 Sep 2017, 18:58

Gregs Kite wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Gregs Kite wrote:
Dthefritz wrote:
Gregs Kite wrote:Look at his entire career and explain to me how his two titles weren't the result of good fortune.

This is exactly my bone to pick. He's no luckier than any mediocre player who happened to make a big play in a big spot. It doesn't matter how many interceptions he threw in week 12 games over the years, he did what he needed to do in those two SB's. As Jike explained, those plays weren't just blind luck.

Yes, he was fortunate enough to have great teammates and be in a position to win a Super Bowl, but that's true of anybody.


Not in the context of overall careers. Find me a worst two time Super Bowl winning QB. Please. He hucked two throws and they were luckily caught. There is no better "right time right place" QB.

In all seriousness, I think he's a better QB than Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson and Flacco. On balance, you could argue he played better in those two SB victories than "Ben" played in his, despite his obviously inferior career record. I'm sure in the days before I watched fooobawwr, there were other non-great QB's who won Super Bowls.

But I stand my original point. Shitty players making great plays in big moments - it happens in sports. You might even say it's why we watch.



You listed all one time winners, lighting in a bottle champs. Manning won two, which given the overall context of his career, is much more representative of a system QB who made a couple lucky throws.

Again. And please read carefully.... They can be great plays and lucky at the same time.


PS: Thanks Jike. No one knows who that is.

A mediocre player making a great play is not luck. Had Manning thrown a pick, and then Tyree stripped the ball and recovered it, that would have been lucky for him. Him making a great throw, and a receiver making a great catch, is not luck, regardless of anything else they did in their respective careers. If you don't accept that distinction, agree to disagree. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
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Re: Ballbag Bill does a Mailbag 9.22.17

Postby JichaelDick » 24 Sep 2017, 19:00

QB is Bob Griese, BTW.
TVF wannabe - Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:42 pm: ...a good rule of thumb is if you post some thing like that and IMS quickly jumps in with an uncomfortable reference you went too far
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Re: Ballbag Bill does a Mailbag 9.22.17

Postby Theny » 24 Sep 2017, 19:12

JichaelDick wrote:QB is Bob Griese, BTW.


GFY
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Re: Ballbag Bill does a Mailbag 9.22.17

Postby BostonSucksMyBalls » 24 Sep 2017, 19:19

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Re: Ballbag Bill does a Mailbag 9.22.17

Postby Jew Jitsu » 24 Sep 2017, 21:44

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CourtesyFlush - Wed May 31, 2017 7:52 am: I stopped taking creep shots when I found out a dude who used to work on my floor got arrested for that at a walgreens in uptown charlotte.
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