MVP Pick - Mailbag

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Re: MVP Pick - Mailbag

Postby Mario Speedwagon » 21 Apr 2015, 02:37

JichaelDick wrote:Not Andy Greenwald, your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.


Are you trying to be the new Nova, running people off the bored?
#2C4S

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Re: MVP Pick - Mailbag

Postby Gregs Kite » 21 Apr 2015, 07:23

Mario Speedwagon wrote:
JichaelDick wrote:Not Andy Greenwald, your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.


Are you trying to be the new Nova, running people off the bored?


Seriously. One white hot Tinder date and our young Jichael is full of piss and vinegar and KFC buffet, sniping at new posters like they stole his chicken livers. Shake my head!
You fuckers ruined kite.

Apr 22, 2015 3:49 pm Clayton Bigsby i enjoy sports

TheWolf - Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:26 pm: i'm ctz. i'm sober at 3:30 pm. dork

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Re: MVP Pick - Mailbag

Postby JichaelDick » 21 Apr 2015, 08:18

Gregs Kite wrote:
Mario Speedwagon wrote:
JichaelDick wrote:Not Andy Greenwald, your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.


Are you trying to be the new Nova, running people off the bored?


Seriously. One white hot Tinder date and our young Jichael is full of piss and vinegar and KFC buffet, sniping at new posters like they stole his chicken livers. Shake my head!


Sorry, I was a little cranky after the Winnipeg loss. Andy, I'm sorry. Come on back, and we can have some Katz and antics and whatnot.
TVF wannabe - Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:42 pm: ...a good rule of thumb is if you post some thing like that and IMS quickly jumps in with an uncomfortable reference you went too far
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Re: MVP Pick - Mailbag

Postby NotAndyGreenwald » 21 Apr 2015, 11:12

'saul goodman.
mj3528 » 03 Dec 2015, 22:34 something rarely said, but NAG was right.

Gregs Kite - Yesterday, 20:56: Is NAG _ v2.0?
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Re: MVP Pick - Mailbag

Postby Seahawks XL Champs » 21 Apr 2015, 12:51

Dthefritz wrote:
Seahawks XL Champs wrote:Thanks for these Fritz. My only beef is with your agreeing with Billy on the 2006 MVP. Kobes team o think won 45 games. I realize he had Luke Walton as one of his best mates but was he that much better than Nash? Yeah Bryant killed it in the playoffs but not part of the vote. Nash was awesome without Amare, as you mention later....Simmons needs to let this one go, as well as 2005 where Nash over Shaq was even more obvious.

Well I did say I agree reluctantly. And you say "was Kobe Really that much better"? No, but he was better at all which is why he's my pick. My only beef with Kobe that season was that he totally sucked the life out of Lamar Odom, but dude averaged 35/5/4 and dragged an otherwise terrible team into the playoffs. Looking over the advanced metrics, you could also make a case for Dirk, LeBron, or Chauncey Billups over Nash. But he was great that year, and I'm not about to get too worked up over him winning.

Now 2005, that was asinine that Nash won that year. Not that Shaq was a good pick either, so not giving Simmons any credit, but Nash was 15th in the league in win shares (Shaq was 14th). That might seem like fancy-pants stats gobbledygook, but it is BY FAR the lowest total of any MVP winner since the NBA/ABA merger, since before they even tracked and talked about the stat. He also had two teammates in the top 5 (Marion and Stoudemire), and only finished 8th in Win Shares per 48, 17th in PER and outside the top 20 in Value over Replacement Player. Now these stats aren't the be-all end-all, and Nash was definitely a big reason for his teammates' success. But really, his numbers are basically blown out of the water by Dirk, KG, Duncan, T-Mac or even young LeBron that year, and I don't think the chemistry and uniqueness factor of the Suns can overcome that big a gap, especially when you consider how good Marion and Stoudemire were that year.



I hear you on all accounts. I'm not going to pretend to know anything about advanced stats, and I have a bias because I live in Phoenix. I can say though, that even with Amare and Marion in 2004 the Suns were beyond shitty, and in 2005 they were the best team in the league in the regular season. And Nash played really well. Besides the five you mention, I remember some arguing for Iverson in 2005. Good choice as well? Suns also had Joe Johnson, so it's not like Nash was carrying stiffs for sure. I just think people arguing for the Deez is ridiculous, which it appears you agree. I don't understand win shares but I understand that folks much more in-tune to the league do. That said, in the 2004-05 season, I do have an issue with the "value over replacement player." I remember talking with Suns fans (I only am a Seahawks fan but have had nominal interest in the Suns living here) and trust me, no one thought that an "above-average" PG like say, Jason Kidd that year, would have the Suns anything close to what Nash did.

And I wonder why on Earth Billy thought Nash deserved it in 2007 over someone like LeBron?
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Re: MVP Pick - Mailbag

Postby Dthefritz » 21 Apr 2015, 19:46

Nash was great and all, but advanced stats aside, he wasn't one of the 5 best players in the league. Not with prime Duncan, prime KG, prime Dirk, prime T Mac and prime Kobe, not to mention young but still awesome LeBron running around. I think you have to have a damn good reason not to give it to one of them, and I personally don't see it.

As for Simmons/Nash in 2007, who knows? Maybe people were comparing dirk to Bird and he threw a piss fit.
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